Best SHTF Ammo for a 10.5 inch Barreled AR.

fireball said:
SHTF ammo? Don't forget the tinfoil.
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Laugh2
 
My research indicates that FMJ ammo from a 10.5 barreled AR will provide optimum stopping power at a maximum of 10 meters, as the bullet needs between 2500 and 2700 ft/second velocity to do the job.
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You didn't pay attention to whatever research you did. Military bullets do not and are not designed to "provide optimum stopping power." A military bullet is designed to provide as much terminal damage as is possible within the constraints of the Hague Convention rules governing the use of small arms projectiles in wartime. That will never equate to optimum terminal performance. As a civilian you are not governed by the Hague Convention and thus are not limited to military bullets.

No FMJ military bullet will over come close to the kind of terminal performance available in a common hunting bullet. Within the constraints of a FMJ bullet that also has to provide light armour piercing function, the best solution for a military bullet is for it to tumble or fragment on impact. That is why the 62gr SS109 bullet turns sideways and breaks up on impact. As you found, it will not do this at lower velocities.

The most reliable expansion will be found in a polycarbonate tipped bullet. The best way to maintain velocity out of a short barreled carbine is to use a lightweight bullet. Something like a 40gr VMax or Ballistic Tip would produce a horrific wound because they are designed to expand explosively.

There are a ton more issues surrounding terminal effectiveness of rifle bullets from short barreled carbines but the last place you should be looking for information is any thread dealing with FMJ military bullets.
 
Suputin said:
You didn't pay attention to whatever research you did. Military bullets do not and are not designed to "provide optimum stopping power." A military bullet is designed to provide as much terminal damage as is possible within the constraints of the Hague Convention rules governing the use of small arms projectiles in wartime. That will never equate to optimum terminal performance. As a civilian you are not governed by the Hague Convention and thus are not limited to military bullets.

No FMJ military bullet will over come close to the kind of terminal performance available in a common hunting bullet. Within the constraints of a FMJ bullet that also has to provide light armour piercing function, the best solution for a military bullet is for it to tumble or fragment on impact. That is why the 62gr SS109 bullet turns sideways and breaks up on impact. As you found, it will not do this at lower velocities.

The most reliable expansion will be found in a polycarbonate tipped bullet. The best way to maintain velocity out of a short barreled carbine is to use a lightweight bullet. Something like a 40gr VMax or Ballistic Tip would produce a horrific wound because they are designed to expand explosively.

There are a ton more issues surrounding terminal effectiveness of rifle bullets from short barreled carbines but the last place you should be looking for information is any thread dealing with FMJ military bullets.
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Absolutely wrong!

A 40 grain Vmax bullet will break up long before reaching the vital organs. It is designed for use on small varments not man sized targets. Total fragmentation at 4 inches.
Get your facts straight and check out my last post and it's links to access the latest professional opinion.

From: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

" Most other acceptable LE barrier blind loadings are at .223 pressures, including the .223 55 & 62 gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical loads (LE223T1 & LE223T3), along with loads using Nosler 60 gr Partition JSP, Remington 62 gr Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded JSP (PRC223R4), .223 Federal 55 gr TSX (T223S), and the .223 Speer 55 & 64 gr Gold Dot JSP's (and identically constructed Federal 62 gr Fusion JSP and Federal XM223SP1 62gr Bonded JSP). "

From:
http://le.atk.com

Gold Dot rifle bullets are optimized to ensure expansion out of barrels down to 10" at a wide variety of velocities out to 200 yards. This kind of performance greatly increases the capabilities of duty rifles and gives law enforcement personnel a distinct advantage when it matters most. In addition, these new loads boast outstanding feeding in short, very short and standard length AR platforms.
Video:

http://le.atk.com/general/irl/videos.aspx
 
From the article: "5.56 mm Duty Loads"...
:confused: Colour me confused... Weren't we talking about zombies? ;) Unless I'm mistaken, they're talking about FMJ being more effective in scenarios where there are obstructed targets.

Anyway, here's my definitive answer: the best ammo to have is actually the ammo you have, because not having any would plain suck. So probably a mix of both (TAP and FMJ), and might as well throw-in some tracers for good measure as well...
 
blaxsun said:
From the article: "5.56 mm Duty Loads"...
:confused: Colour me confused... Weren't we talking about zombies? ;) Unless I'm mistaken, they're talking about FMJ being more effective in scenarios where there are obstructed targets.
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No, they are saying soft points are more effective and the most effective softpoint seems to be the Gold Dot or the equivalent Fusion .223 ammo.
 
Broker said:
No, they are saying soft points are more effective and the most effective softpoint seems to be the Gold Dot or the equivalent Fusion .223 ammo.
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You know, it's one opinion among many. I'm not trying to infer it doesn't have merit or that I necessarily disagree, just that there are also other very knowledgeable opinions out there as well.

I'm not actually sure I understand the question (point) anymore. In the military and LE you'll use whatever's assigned or mandated, and I think Suputin summed it up best: "As a civilian you are not governed by the Hague Convention and thus are not limited to military bullets."

If we're talking personal defense, then it has to be TAP, TAP and then TAP. Why? If one has to engage an intruder, they don't want anything like FMJ that's more likely to exit upon penetrating and potentially hit something else.

Zombies... maybe FMJ to get the "double head-shot" or tracer to get the "flaming bisque" achievements...

cp220 said:
Shoot them in the face. I've heard that works well.
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lol. Thanks for the chuckle... ;)
 
And the Winner is!

The majority of respondents to this thread seem to like this round as the best short barrel round for the AR. A very good choice!

556_NATO_75_BTHP_WC_T2_4website.jpg


Hornady 5.56 NATO 75 gr. BTHP T2 TAP®

Specially designed profile optimizes function and feeding in M16/M4 variant guns.

The T2 bullet profile is specifically designed to optimize function and feeding in M16/M4 variant guns. The cartridge’s propellant technology is custom designed to enhance weapon operation, and delivers phenomenal temperature stability. The cases are manufactured to mil-spec hardness and feature staked and sealed primers and sealed case mouths.


Intended for use in and performs optimally in a 1:9" twist barrel.
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