I couldn't say no. After talking to Rick I commissioned a 338 imp. build instead of the standard version. The combination of horsepower, case life and lack of trimming sounded too good to pass up. I wonder what the barrel life would be like if it was salt bath nitrided?
"best" version of the .338?
- Thread starter logan1080
- Start date
I couldn't say no. After talking to Rick I commissioned a 338 imp. build instead of the standard version. The combination of horsepower, case life and lack of trimming sounded too good to pass up. I wonder what the barrel life would be like if it was salt bath nitrided?
- Location
- calgary alberta
"I wonder what the barrel life would be like if it was salt bath nitrided?" The truth is , so are we. Given what we have heard from trusted friends and sources down south who have been doing this process for several years now, it "should" be a real benefit to barrel life.
I guess only time will really tell us.
We have had 1 of our higher volume shooters go with a salt bath nitrided barrel and barrel life was very short, as in about 1000 rounds IIRC. There are several possibilities being the cause. Our feeling at this time is that we got 1 of the barrels that Rock made from 410 stainless from the wrong steel being shipped to them by mistake rather than 416R as they normally are made of. We had another client experience the same thing in a non nitrided 308 barrel from Rock. It was replaced without question at about 500 rounds.
We have several other 338s as well as 300s built with nitrided barrels, both Dustin's and my own 338s are as well but as of today none have more than 700 rounds down the pipe. Borescope observations do not show any throat erosion or firecracking yet, so we have high hopes that the 1 that burned out prematurely is a fluke occurrence.
We feel the standard 338 Lapua to be the best option that takes into account the most variables to ensure long term happiness for the majority of clients...certainly a small amount of additional speed is available via wildcatting and apparently Rick advises clients that you can reload the IMP cases over 43x with no issues whilst driving 300 grain bullets at 3050 fps which if this is the case for the hundreds of clients shooting these rifles from Rick represents a massive and game changing cost savings that should if accurate mean nobody would shoot standard 338 Lapua anymore...
Much for the OP to consider...
Much for the OP to consider...
- Location
- calgary alberta
Ross, I was awaiting so sort of snide comments from either you or steve alluding to your feeling that we misleading the public.
And as usual I am not disappointed.
Guess what pal? We are not alone in explaining to people the gains that the 338 Lapua Improved has to offer, there are many very reputable gun makers, like us, both in Canada and in the USA that not only offer the plain vanilla 338 Lapua, like you do, but also the 338 Lapua Improved to those who are not afraid of wildcat calibers that truly offer some advantages.
Ross not every one is content with standard out of the box calibers, they have their place to be sure, but for those of us who REALLY want to push the extreme long range envelope and are not afraid of what it takes to make the ammo to shoot a wildcat, what is your problem?
It is not like we are all alone singing a song of praise. There are thousands of guys in North America shooting some modified version of the 338 Lapua, and virtually all are experiencing the same sort of velocities I cite and much greater case life than SAAMI or CIP 338 Lapua does.
Maybe the several hundred rifles we have produced in 338 LAI that ALL share the same experience are anomalies in what they deliver? OR maybe, just maybe, we are on to something that works.
There is room for everyone here. These are just opinions and you are both free to express yours but please take the personal attacks somewhere else. Thanks.
I am satisfied with an out of the box cartridge like the standard 338 Lapua but I wouldn't be satisfied with the claimed accuracy of 3/4MOA the Timberwolf gives. My DTA claims 1/2MOA and I've seen it do it over and over with my handloads.
If I had more cash for long range rigs I might give the AI a shot but I doubt that myself and many others on here would see any gains since a lot of us might get to shoot 1000yds or more once a summer if we're lucky.
To those lucky ones that have a spot to regularly shoot 1000+ how about inviting other locals out for a fun shoot a couple times a summer where we can all get together and ring some distant gongs?
My range only goes to 300yds but they have plans to expand to 700 this summer.
I am satisfied with an out of the box cartridge like the standard 338 Lapua but I wouldn't be satisfied with the claimed accuracy of 3/4MOA the Timberwolf gives. My DTA claims 1/2MOA and I've seen it do it over and over with my handloads.
If I had more cash for long range rigs I might give the AI a shot but I doubt that myself and many others on here would see any gains since a lot of us might get to shoot 1000yds or more once a summer if we're lucky.
To those lucky ones that have a spot to regularly shoot 1000+ how about inviting other locals out for a fun shoot a couple times a summer where we can all get together and ring some distant gongs?
My range only goes to 300yds but they have plans to expand to 700 this summer.
The 3/4" claim is based on factory ammo for the T-Wolf !! American gun industry is full of hype and stretching the truth! Even worse then Canada! Lol!
Arguing 3/4" - 1/2" accuracy is BS! And so subjective the DTA is no more accurate then the PGW Timberwolf or vice versa! I can show you targets of 6 round groups at 200m and 300m sub 1/2" out of a T-Wolf using hand loads I can show you 1/2"- 1 MOA groups using various factory ammo! The DTA will be the same deal!
I think you been hanging out with Dirtydouchenozzle ;-) is he still buying rifles and selling them when they get a scratch lol!
- Location
- calgary alberta
And another thread heads down the sewer.
And another thread heads down the sewer.
Every thread somebody makes a post in you don't agree with "goes down the sewer" lol...I just found it odd you suggest to your several hundred clients that shoot your version of 338IMP in rifles that you have built that reloading cases "more than" 43x is a good practice...I disagree that it is and I also feel for the vast majority of folks (the OP included) that they are better served by the standard 338 Lapua...
- Location
- calgary alberta
So if I understand you correctly, even though a casing has absolutely no sign of stretching, does not need to be trimmed, the primer pocket is still tight and there is no sign of cracking from within, it should be discarded???? Simply because it has more than X number of reloadings?
Apparently you do not know many BR shooters and the 1s I know will get waaaaaaay more than 40 reloadings from their 6PPC casings, which has a much higher pressure than 338 Lapua operates within.
I am simply relaying what my experience is with not only my own rifles in this caliber is, but also what we have heard back from clients, both ours and other makers that all have the same results with the 338 LAI.
It is a fairly well known and established theory that Ackley started when he first started to decrease body taper and steepen shoulder angles which resulted in not only increased capacity, but also greatly increase casing longevity. It is not like I invented the theory, simply followed his, and to great success.
"I know I want a .338 as my next rifle, but which type? I was wanting a .338 lapua but I was talking to a gunsmith today who said that some think the large bolt face is a negative and something like a .338 edge can be better because it might have a slightly larger case capacity. Then there is the .338 snipetac, .338 rum and I'm sure there are many more. What are the benefits to each? I am looking for the best suited for long range shooting. Is any of these versions ballistically superior to the others? "
This is the original post that was asked.
Each caliber or cartridge has pro's and con's Simply because pgw does not offer an Improved 338 cartridge does not mean it is superior.
It merely means that factory ammo is available,nothing more.
For "competent" reloaders a wildcat can and does offer advantages over SAAMI/CIP cartridges. And "competent" reloaders are going to check their casings for imminent failure prior to reloading them, so I fail to see your issue.
Apparently you do not know many BR shooters and the 1s I know will get waaaaaaay more than 40 reloadings from their 6PPC casings, which has a much higher pressure than 338 Lapua operates within.
I am simply relaying what my experience is with not only my own rifles in this caliber is, but also what we have heard back from clients, both ours and other makers that all have the same results with the 338 LAI.
It is a fairly well known and established theory that Ackley started when he first started to decrease body taper and steepen shoulder angles which resulted in not only increased capacity, but also greatly increase casing longevity. It is not like I invented the theory, simply followed his, and to great success.
"I know I want a .338 as my next rifle, but which type? I was wanting a .338 lapua but I was talking to a gunsmith today who said that some think the large bolt face is a negative and something like a .338 edge can be better because it might have a slightly larger case capacity. Then there is the .338 snipetac, .338 rum and I'm sure there are many more. What are the benefits to each? I am looking for the best suited for long range shooting. Is any of these versions ballistically superior to the others? "
This is the original post that was asked.
Each caliber or cartridge has pro's and con's Simply because pgw does not offer an Improved 338 cartridge does not mean it is superior.
It merely means that factory ammo is available,nothing more.
For "competent" reloaders a wildcat can and does offer advantages over SAAMI/CIP cartridges. And "competent" reloaders are going to check their casings for imminent failure prior to reloading them, so I fail to see your issue.
I'm going directly off their website and all it says is 3/4MOA with appropriate ammo. The DTA website says guaranteed 1/2MOA with appropriate ammo and as an owner of a DTA I can honestly say that it delivers that. I haven't had the chance to shoot a Timberwolf yet but a buddy of mine has one so I am sure I will get a chance this summer when we do our annual shoot.
I agree that the difference between 1/2 and 3/4 MOA is trivial as most shooters won't see any difference but knowing that the rifle is capable makes it a better choice for me. I personally wouldn't choose a Timberwolf over the DTA even if it could shoot 1/4MOA as the advantages offered by the DTA over the Timberwolf are hard to ignore. My DTA can be swapped to numerous different calibers in about a minute. The cost of a conversion is about the cost of a quality scope so it really means I can buy one optic and a couple caliber kits for less than a Timberwolf and a Coyote which would both need glass, then you still only have two calibers. The DTA is also a much more compact platform. Just for the sake of argument I'll agree that they are equal in the accuracy department and more depends on the ammo and the shooter than the rifle.
I don't have any idea where you get the idea I hang out with anyone that sells a rifle if it gets a scratch. My DTA has spent entire days slung over my back while out quadding and hunting and has been covered in mud and drug through the trees. The guys I hang out with use their long range rigs for more than just sitting at a bench making holes in paper.
338 Lapua meets whitetail.
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It's no wonder most of my shooting buddies have abandoned CGN in favor of the other option. Every thread turns into someone attacking and picking fights claiming to be a better this or that.
ATRS and RSP1761 are losing my respect quickly due to their silly squabbling, grow up boys, there are enough customers to go around and by acting like this you are just making people look for other options. You both make exceptional products which appeal to different types of shooters so state the facts and your opinions and leave the name calling and crap out of it. Everyone wants something different so we will choose what we feel suits us best and you will both sell many rifles.
If you base your respect for people from CGN well.... I will leave it at that!
If you get your info from a manufactures website and think its written in stone and it's the end all be all well... I don't know what to say!
I can see you still have it in your mind that somehow the DTA is more accurate because of what's written on a website FFS!
I am not saying one is better then the other not at all! Great the DTA is better for you I am glad you have a rifle that works for you!
Yes, yes.
If your in Alberta PM me and we can try to line up schedules and you can try it for yourself
Yes please leave it at that.
I get my info from as many sources as I can but if they could consistently shoot better than 3/4 MOA I'm sure they would claim it.
I said they are equal and it's more ammo and shooter.
I'm glad as well.
I'll bring mine out next time we meet up so you can play around with it.
Going to be putting a new scope on it shortly so will have to redo the zero anyways.
My head hurts! You still don't get it! I have shot many different .338LM including the DTA with factory and hand loads. So yeah we can leave it at that!
You're right, I don't get it. You seem to be trying to argue and start a fight but you haven't said what it is you disagree with me about. I agreed with you that both rifles are probably equal in accuracy.
I stated my opinion that I prefer the DTA and that is my right to have that opinion and you don't need to share it.
I don't care how many 338's you've shot. Makes no difference to me.
I don't care how good their customer service is, if they built a quality product no one would have any idea what their customer service was like because no one would have problems with the rifle.
So did they work out the issues they were having with chambers being drilled off axis of the bore?
I have a buddy who is a CF sniper and he prefers my DTA to the Timberwolf as well. I value his opinion.
