Best way to improve off hand or standing shots?

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lonewonderer

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Tried shooting off hand today and even with my .22 it was quite difficult. I had a sling but wasn't sure how to use it. Does it just automatically get better with practice? Or should I focus on bench rest accuracy first?
 
Google military sling.

Then practice, practice, practice.

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I'm trying the same thing. I find it better to move slowly up through the target while always using the same grip and trigger finger position and practice enough to do it the same each time. As my confidence grows so does my shooting.
 
Use of a sling in standing provides marginal if any benefit. Muscles are still being used to support the weight of the rifle. Creating a position using bone structure is more beneficial. The arm of the hand supporting the fore end can be tucked against the ribcage or if you can reach with your elbow, rest it on your hip bone. The hand can be formed into a fist or use fingertips to support the fore end close to the trigger guard. Elevation changes can be made by bending at the waist or moving the hips slightly towards the target. A position created on bone structure will extend the time to fatigue the muscles as they are then only being used to support the solid structure.
If slings worked in standing, they would be used in that element of 3Position matches. Visiting a silhouette match will give insight into creating a good standing with a sporting rifle. A good silhouette shooter will take 5 shots in well under the 2.5 minute time allowance and hold 2-3" 100m groups.
 
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Check out Youtube, there are some old US military training videos on how to shoot the M1A and M1 Garand from various shooting positions and with a sling. When I first bought an M305 I found the videos to be useful.

It really isn't easy ...
 
lonewonderer said:
Tried shooting off hand today and even with my .22 it was quite difficult. I had a sling but wasn't sure how to use it. Does it just automatically get better with practice? Or should I focus on bench rest accuracy first?
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If you want to learn to shoot really well from a bench, practice shooting from a bench.
If you want to learn position shooting, that is where you need to spend your time.
If possible, see if you can find an experienced coach. This will dramatically shorten the learning curve, and prevent learning mistakes.
Dry firing is excellent practice and doesn't need a range.
 
I would recommend starting literally 1" from the target. Using dry fire see if you are pulling the rifle by snatching the trigger or driving the rifle down by clenching. Once you sort that out take a step back. This is when you shoot at small dots, be more concerned with small groups than having the same POA/POI. As you can see your groupings close up move back, and back and back. Move back to the point that you can still see your bullet holes as they appear, and dial your scope so POA is POI. This will give you real time feed back and let you teach yourself to fire perfect shots from an unstable position. If you shoot groups you can't see and need to walk up and check them out you will be getting 10% of the training value.

This works oddly enough for all positional shooting. Learn to shoot in close then stretch it out.
 
There is no magic. Practice a smooth trigger press dry firing while trying to keep the oscillations around the aiming point to a minimum.

You might want to try just aiming at a point on the wall and look for oscillations in your sight picture. Previous posters have given good advice regarding shooting position and hold. Find the combination that gives you the steadiest hold, then work on your trigger press so that the act of the trigger break has no effect on the movement of the gun.

Sounds easy doesn't it? After 50+ years of shooting, it is still a frustrating mystery to me.
 
First you have to built your stance, orientation to the target to be same in any situation. This is achieved through training and becomes your second nature.
Books are written on this topic.
Second is posture, correct way to hold the riffle which is in direct correlation with your body built. For example some people can't nest elbow onto the hip bone some people can't even reach down there. You don't need sling for standing, sling is for prone and kneeling positions but you will see some shooters use sling in standing mostly to eliminate sling swing not to utilize it.
Third it will be you trigger technique (surprise me), breathing monitoring heart beat rate. Dry firing. 8 seconds time frame.
Fourth proper sight picture and aiming.
Al of this could be done without firing a single bullet.
 
youll never get any good shooting from a bench. the only reason you should do that is to zero in your rifle. after that just shoot off hand. or if you hunt practice from every position you can think of. practice,practice,practice.
 
I always found shooting off hand much more stable with a sling than without. I would reach my left (support) hand through the sling so it was up higher than my elbow then pull my arm back out so the sling is tight against the back of my arm and my support hand is then pushing the rifle away from the sling creating tension and a triangle of support. That helped me tighten up my hold so there was way less back and forth.
 
Although everything the previous posters have said regarding the basic technique prevails the one piece missing is : getting "comfortable " with the gun/caliber you're shooting. A GARGANTUAN difference between shooting a .22 and a 300 Win Mag - the difference is getting "accoustomed" to the recoil to avoid "the flinch". First master the trigger control - (I would suggest that from a bench with proper bags fore and aft) concentrate on a slow steady trigger PRESSURE - not PULL (jerk) - until - SURPRISE the gun fires - when you can CONSISTENTLY achieve that surprise without "flinching" you've got 90% of the problem solved.

Next level is developing the trust in your "sub-conscious" for off-hand "snap shooting". Pull a target in close - 15yds. Center a black pastie on the target. Focus on that black target - mount the rifle - first bringing the front sight on target and bringing the rear sight to align both the black dot, the front sight and the rear sight - letting your "subconscious mind" determine when to "squeeze" off the shot. Shooting with a scope makes the sighting a whole bunch easier than shooting with iron sights.

This type of training prepares the shooter well for hunting where most shots are made offhand without the aid of "supports" however the sighting concept applies also to kneeling or using a handy tree etc.

Long distance target/sniper style shooting - simply uses the basics in trigger control - extending to breathing/heart rate and subconscious "shot release".

Bottom line is (as all have stated before) is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE ... PROVIDING one learns the PROPER TECHNIQUE to practice. Otherwise one is simply practising their mistakes and making no progress!!
 
superted said:
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Next level is developing the trust in your "sub-conscious" for off-hand "snap shooting". Pull a target in close - 15yds. Center a black pastie on the target. Focus on that black target - mount the rifle - first bringing the front sight on target and bringing the rear sight to align both the black dot, the front sight and the rear sight - letting your "subconscious mind" determine when to "squeeze" off the shot. Shooting with a scope makes the sighting a whole bunch easier than shooting with iron sights. ...
!!
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You're suggesting a conscious control of the sub-conscious by letting your subconscious work !? It's not possible to consciously let the subconscious work. The subconscious will work without conscious control. It is what you think about consciously which drives the subconscious to execute a learned or conditioned behaviour, specific to the topic that would be activating the trigger at the right time. So it would seem that a preshot routine or a setup might best be used to create the conditions for the subconscious to learn the desired response. This can be done for any shooting position. Whether the focus is on the sights, reticle, breathing , a point of the hold doesn't matter as long as there is consistency.
 
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Sorry if this response is getting off topic BUT my experience in using the sub-conscious while shooting goes back to my IPSC handgun shooting. By doing the stage "walk thru" in slow motion incorporating EVERY detail including looking at each target array until you could close your eyes and still "see them" and moving into the next shooting position and doing the same thing ALWAYS in SLOW MOTION incorporating EVERY DETAIL such as when you'd do a reload into your memory "sub-conscious". EVERY DETAIL had to be transfered from the conscious mind to the sub-conscious. If at any point a mistake was made in the slow motion walk through - you had to restart from the beginning and do it again absolutely correctky until you could close your eyes and "see" the whole stage unfold in the conscious mind. When that was achieved, the whole stage "run" was put into the SUB-CONSCIOUS mind ready to be retrieved and put into effect at the first INSTANT the start timer sounded. What took maybe two minutes to "walk through" took 15 seconds to actually shoot. The IPSC shooters who scoffed at this concept, failed to ever achieve their full potential. Go WAY BACK to the Brian Enos book "Shooting From Within" ...
 
superted
I'm not criticizing the process but your explanation and perhaps your understanding of it. Mental rehearsal is what you are using. Combined with actual rehearsal it is a powerful training tool.
However, to suggest the process can be performed in "two minutes" would make you a very special person as many world class shooters take sometimes weeks and frequently months to train the subconscious mind to execute the shooting process flawlessly.
 
I had been unconvinced about the usefulness of a sling while shooting off hand until the other day. My brother gave me a longer sling that I was able to wrap my support arm through and pull tight across my chest by pushing my chest out while lifting my shooting elbow up until that arm was parallel to the ground. Tightened my 4 rnd group @100M to 3.4". Best ever before was 5.5".
 
Definitely the fit is a big one. I shoot my Parker-Hale converted Lee-Enfield No1 the best out of any of my Lee-Enfields because it has a much better length of pull and higher comb plus a decent sling and a nice balance. It feels rock solid in my shoulder compared to all my other rifles.

I read the old military musketry manual 'Shoot to Live' and practiced it a lot when I first started shooting. I got good enough that I could squeeze off a dry shot with an empty .22 case balanced on the front sight ear as well as my position figured out enough that my 120lb wife could sit directly on top of my rifle at my forward hand indefinitely (prone obviously). I took what I learned there and moved it into offhand, elbow directly under the magazine, relaxed forward hand grip, tight cheek weld that supports all of my heads weight, rifle moved to my eyes and not eyes moved to my sights, proud right elbow, foot stance and weight on the forward foot.

My Dad also taught me to practice offhand with my heaviest rifle, or one that is balanced far forward (SVT-40 and Garand work well).

Lastly, shoot lots. Even a .22 will help you tons.
 
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