Agree with Hitzy, you dont see pages and pages of posts from lads having problems with neck sizing. The shoulder bump methodology seems to be a long and torturous rabbit hole. Heck - they havent even touched on runout induced by the FL die, which the collet die avoids. Additional bonus with the neck sizing die - no lube required.
Best Way To Setup Die For .001 Shoulder Bump
- Thread starter waynewjw
- Start date
Just neck sizing works, until it doesn't.
And thats when you bump the shoulder back. - dan
Hopefully you don't have to find out at an inconvenient time.
It's pretty easy to get consistent shoulder bump once you get your system setup. Especially if you use Whidden's click adjustable sizers.
Body die, collet neck. Love the combo.
Sometimes I feel it’s annoying to set the body die, I use the Competition shell holders to help out with that, just wish they were in 0.001” increments. The click adjustable locking ring would be awesome.
Sometimes I feel it’s annoying to set the body die, I use the Competition shell holders to help out with that, just wish they were in 0.001” increments. The click adjustable locking ring would be awesome.
I agree about the neck sizing being simple and effective, and very economical for case life for bolt action rifles. For bolt action rifles, for my needs, I do not fuss with full length resizing and shoulder bumping when its not necessary.
In my brass prep system for my bolt rifles, after first depriming and all the brass cleaning is done, the first thing I check is headspace. Most, and usually all of the cases stay good for headspace after every firing in all my bolt rifles. The few that are not get FL resized.
The exception is after annealing, when I do FL resize all the cases. I normally anneal after every 4-5 firings.
The shoulder bump adjustment method I use is with a fine tipped marker to mark the die lock ring with about 1mm increments, and a witness marker line on the die body. Turn the die one increment at a time which approximates about 1 thou at a time. I do like the look of those new Forster lock rings with the increments pre-made on the ring. I plan to get some when I can add them to an online bulk order. I have seen the video for the Whidden click rings, which also look very useful.
For neck sizing I prefer the Lee Collet die. However Lee does not make one for my 6.5 x 47 Lapua, so for that caliber I use the Redding bushing neck sizing die (which does not size the case body or shoulder). It only needs a minimal wipe of lube on the neck for the bushing.
After neck sizing, or FL resizing, I use a Sinclair expander die and mandrel, which I find is important to correct for sometimes too tight and uneven neck tension across all the cases.
In my brass prep system for my bolt rifles, after first depriming and all the brass cleaning is done, the first thing I check is headspace. Most, and usually all of the cases stay good for headspace after every firing in all my bolt rifles. The few that are not get FL resized.
The exception is after annealing, when I do FL resize all the cases. I normally anneal after every 4-5 firings.
The shoulder bump adjustment method I use is with a fine tipped marker to mark the die lock ring with about 1mm increments, and a witness marker line on the die body. Turn the die one increment at a time which approximates about 1 thou at a time. I do like the look of those new Forster lock rings with the increments pre-made on the ring. I plan to get some when I can add them to an online bulk order. I have seen the video for the Whidden click rings, which also look very useful.
For neck sizing I prefer the Lee Collet die. However Lee does not make one for my 6.5 x 47 Lapua, so for that caliber I use the Redding bushing neck sizing die (which does not size the case body or shoulder). It only needs a minimal wipe of lube on the neck for the bushing.
After neck sizing, or FL resizing, I use a Sinclair expander die and mandrel, which I find is important to correct for sometimes too tight and uneven neck tension across all the cases.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
You are just looking for any movement in the ram, lever, etc when SH meets the bottom of the die. Just a hard contact, no wiggle, no movement, etc. If there is a gap between SH and die, use a lubed case and size... measure the gap and ensure it stays consistent with a few cases.
Keep it simple
Neck sizing alone with low pressure loads, no problem until it isn't. High pressure loads common to many shooting games, I bet you will get enough case stretch to cause issues in a couple of firings
YMMV
Jerry
Can't you check the chamber fit of the brass before you reload it?
Sure - That should be SOP for all reloaders, even those with the fancy gismos.
However, seating the bullet can cause the neck to expand slightly and give you grief, albeit rather uncommon. The additional check is warranted for a hunting round.
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Indeed. - dan
Sure, but how many are people checking?
You can certainly neck size only - obviously there's many that do it. But there's also many that run into problems with it when they aren't religious about checking their brass, or ran out of time, or happened to check the brass that just fit okay but 20+% of other brass is not and now causing issues out in the field.
I'm not going to say that FL sizing is the only way, its not. But it's certainly a better way to ensure reliability. It does require a little work to get the die initially setup right.
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
I always wondered if a person could run into issues with neck sizing and extreme cold.
If your rifle was outside at lets say -20 and the ammo was in your pocket, would it be enough expansion/contraction to not chamber?
If your rifle was outside at lets say -20 and the ammo was in your pocket, would it be enough expansion/contraction to not chamber?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
for those that are outside under those conditions, good idea to test and see what happens.... and then how about condensation?
This question should also be tested with the many vault tight custom actions which run like butter in the heat.... how do they run in the cold? or wet? or dirty?
I would rather err on the side of a little more clearance vs too little .... Shooters should do more testing under the harshest conditions they want to play in and assume less.
YMMV
Jerry
Then perhaps they should add "chamber check" to their procedures. As for issues in the field, if you have debris in your firearm you have other problems than your reloading. - dan
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
Checking every round seems like a lot more work than simply bumping the shoulder a thousandth.
Might be okay the first couple times but you’ll end up bumping the shoulder anyways.
Then the ammo may still not chamber in another rifle. That may or may not be an issue.
waynewjw
CGN Regular
As mostly a range on paper shooter, other than getting caught in extreme cold weather, I’m staying close to my fireplace where it’s toasty warm. Back on topic, I’ve now loaded 40 of the annealed brass, two different powders at grains moved up 0.1 per 5 rounds for testing at the range, all of which were bumped initially 0.001 and a few 0.002. My rifle was out of the safe and tested for loading the rounds every 4 or 5 reloads, all fit as they should, so don’t expect any problems once at the range. Previously I’ve had it happen where empty cases chambered without problem and then at the range a few wouldn’t chamber and a few were very hard hammer the bolt down to fit into chamber...not ideal for reloading scenarios IMHO.
Well - I think you need to differentiate between full FL sizing for hunting rounds, and using a FL die to bump the shoulder slightly for precision target shooting (a la Cortina). I believe this thread refers to the latter, and its fair to say that bumping the shoulder very slightly requires some finesse that is beyond the abilities of many reloaders, particularly newbies. I would suggest neck sizing as a reasonable alternative,if a snug chamber fit is desired. Otherwise, screw down the FL die a quarter turn to give a bigger bump.
I use a Ross for hunting. With its limited camming power, there is no way I would rely upon neck sizing. I would use a FL die with a generous resize, and I would check for fit, one or two brass and all loaded rounds. If I wanted to get fancy, I would use a collet die and a body die to minimize runout.
For my bolt action rifles, I neck size until things get tight - usually 3-4 loads, then bump with a body die (if available), or a FL die. BTW - I dont hot-rod my loads in any of my rifles, so the brass is worked less. The principal reason I do this is to minimize runout, which I've come to realize is a major deterrent to good grouping.
If, for whatever reason, I get stuck with a loaded round that wont chamber, I'll either break it down, or bump the case with the body die.
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Depends on where and how you shoot.
In some disciplines, neck sizing only is a recipe for disaster. Fine for the square range on a covered concrete pad, but in the actual field is a completely different story.
