Best you've ever done with your M14 pattern rifle for consistent accuracy

[redshooter]

The spread across all your loads would have to be very low to maintain moa.

If your gun is only capable of 1moa at 100, I doubt it would do same at 1000 from my experience.

I'll agree that a rifle that shoots 1 MOA at 100 may not do that at 1000 but as I said that's a flaw with the load. If your talking real world preformance sure as it fouls or gets hot the condidtions change. So I can't argue with what your saying. My point is if it shoots MOA it shoots MOA. If you can duplicate the conditions in the rifle it should do it everytime. Inconsistant ammo, as distance increases so does the way it flys. A barrel with different temperatures for each shot, again changes in how it performs etc.

 

[Sluggo_m14]

The spread across all your loads would have to be very low to maintain moa, so its just not a given.

If your gun is only capable of 1moa at 100, I doubt it would do same at 1000 from my experience.

So to test the platform, you would be better off to keep the range lower toward the 100yd mark to keep noise from load variation minimized but still allow ease of measuring? Maybe the platform's accuracy would still be the same at 1000 yds but the effects of this load variation would overtake the platform's variation.

 

[redshooter]

So to test the platform, you would be better off to keep the range lower toward the 100yd mark to keep noise from load variation minimized but still allow ease of measuring? Maybe the platform's accuracy would still be the same at 1000 yds but the effects of this load variation would overtake the platform's variation.

That's my contention.

If I may take some liberty . If it doesn't shoot better than MOA at 100 your not likely going to see MOA at 1000.

 

[liberty]

I'll agree that a rifle that shoots 1 MOA at 100 may not do that at 1000 but as I said that's a flaw with the load. If your talking real world preformance sure as it fouls or gets hot the condidtions change. So I can't argue with what your saying. My point is if it shoots MOA it shoots MOA. If you can duplicate the conditions in the rifle it should do it everytime. Inconsistant ammo, as distance increases so does the way it flys. A barrel with different temperatures for each shot, again changes in how it performs

Yes, you mentioned other factors as well and they all come into play.

Many shooters would not be able to hold moa at 1000.

My point being these things are not linear.

It is alot easier to shoot 1" groups at 100 yds than it is to shoot 10" groups at 1000yds.

 

[redshooter]

Yes, you mentioned other factors as well and they all come into play.

Many shooters would not be able to hold moa at 1000.

My point being these things are not linear.

It is alot easier to shoot 1" groups at 100 yds than it is to shoot 10" groups at 1000yds.

Agreed.

To be honest I highly doubt I could come close.

It amazes me that guys can shoot 1000 yds with irons and do a better job than I could hope to with a quality scope.

 

[liberty]

Agreed.

To be honest I highly doubt I could come close.

It amazes me that guys can shoot 1000 yds with irons and do a better job than I could hope to with a quality scope.

Haha, I know, I can't do as well either, even with a scope.

Hey, if it were that easy, all the guys with 1/4- 1/2 moa bolt guns would be going out every weekend and setting world records.

 

[Brutus]

So to test the platform, you would be better off to keep the range lower toward the 100yd mark to keep noise from load variation minimized but still allow ease of measuring? Maybe the platform's accuracy would still be the same at 1000 yds but the effects of this load variation would overtake the platform's variation.

All due respect, but exactly where do you get this rather unusual statement from?

 

[redshooter]

All due respect, but exactly where do you get this rather unusual statement from?

I don't think it's unusual. I think it's his interpretation of the disscusion so far and I think it's an accurate statement. If we're just trying to establish a rifles outright accuracy under ideal conditions.

IF we are testing handloading techniques, Bullet/powder/primer/case choice, or the rifles ability to maintain consistancy as it heats up/fouls then no 100 yds/m is not ideal.

 

[M14Doctor]

AhHhhhhh, we needed a thread like this , things get kinda mundane around here over winter thanx Ardent.

I am constantly surprised at how some of these chinese rifles turn out after a massaging. By that I mean simply correcting quality control issues related to assembly, barrel index, stock fit and general parts alignment. Simple "accurizing" procedures would include conditioning the barrels oprod guide, gas cylinder splineways and flash hider splineways to give a nice tight fit of the parts. Shimming the cylinder for port alignment and unitizing the gas system to negate gas band shifting.
Any rifle needs a good trigger job and I really feel that a NM spring guide rod and a tight fitting oprod , combined with the above, is a very cost effective way to bring the stock rifle to the next level.

For a guy looking at his out of the box rifle and wanting to upgrade it but not spend a tonne of cash? Probably 500 to 600 bucks
-gunsmith fees approx 350.00 to 450.00
-New oprod (dlask arms-RWB g.i. spec oprods) around 140.00 delivered (200.00retail in the states btw)
-NM oprod spring guide rod approx 50.00

So a 1000.00 approx, rifle included, brings your chinese rifle to a level where you can decide if shrinking the group further is in your plans.
I haven't addressed replacing sights or adding mounts, optics, bipods ect

The next step though,would be a match barrel and a quality gas cylinder and piston.
add another 800.00 to 1000.00 for this upgrade.

So you guys can see pretty quick how it can add up. And we have not replaced all the parts with usgi ect.

I am pleased when I hear a rifle I've built or tuned, shoots sub 2" . At the end of the day I have to be satisfied with that as a reachable target. When I hear back that some rifles are shooting 1.5 or 1.25 @ 100 , I get a lil tingly

The platform is addicting for me and I could never get bored of tinkering and tuning

Okay let's hear more from you shooters

 

[Plink]

At the end of the day, it's a battle rifle.. Not a precision rifle.

I'll take 1-2 MOA all day long......

 

[t-star]

what we need to make this really intresting is for pm harper to take the real m14s off the prohib list ; only then can we actually see what a LEVEL playing field looks like- ie a rinco against a trw, a springfield( not the private company ) h&r, and a winchester

 

[Brutus]

I don't think it's unusual. I think it's his interpretation of the disscusion so far and I think it's an accurate statement. If we're just trying to establish a rifles outright accuracy under ideal conditions.

IF we are testing handloading techniques, Bullet/powder/primer/case choice, or the rifles ability to maintain consistancy as it heats up/fouls then no 100 yds/m is not ideal.

Then let's here some backup with facts & not unfounded claims. Noisy rifle statement sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.

You are trying to defend in effect someone with thier own ear, can audibly detect variations in powder of handloads, let's say between 44.0 and 44.5 grain loads??

BS I say..........

 

[redshooter]

Then let's here some backup with facts & not unfounded claims. Noisy rifle statement sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.

You are trying to defend in effect someone with thier own ear, can audibly detect variations in powder of handloads, let's say between 44.0 and 44.5 grain loads??

BS I say..........

I think you misunderstand, buy noise I think he means other things effecting the rifle. An example being cheap Chinese ammo instead of Federal GMM. The "noise" adding flaws to the system and increasing the error, or in this case group size.

 

[Sluggo_m14]

Sorry for the confusion-what I meant by "noise" is a unwanted random addition to a signal that is being measured, just as Redshooter described-Not acoustical sound. Variations in powder weight might be a background noise. -, the shooters hold, weather etc.

 

[Lost...again]

You hit the nail on the head mate. Its a Battle Rifle. As long as you can get even a 6 or 8 inch group at 300mtrs, your gonna ruin someones day, just what it was supposed to do.
You see all this 1.5 inch group at 600mtrs stuff and start thinking you should quit. I like tight groups but they are rare and not the norm. I have a pic from the range 100 mtrs, 3out of 5 inside a loony 2 just outside a tooney, but this was one group out of 24. Hardly the sort of thing to boast about ........tho it did make me smile from ear to ear. With a scope tho. 25 years ago I could do that with an SLR and iron sights...Cant beat the clock .
I like the gun it does exactly what it was designed to do and at the end of the day if I miss with the first I can get four more off pretty slick

 

[TargetNorth]

I've got a shorty Norc, and with factory ammo and my bad eyesight it groups 5 shots into 5 inches or so off bags at 100m. So far.

I just ordered 500 bullets and have brass waiting, so I'll see how good I can get it shooting over the summer in time for deer season.

 

[H2O MAN]

+1. Even once they are well tuned instruments, the maintenance is pretty high to keep them there.

This has not been my experience, mine have retained their accuracy without maintenance beyond an occasional cleaning and greasing.

 

[cancer]

I had a tuned Norc M14 (that I foolishly sold and keep PMing the current owner to see if he's bored of it every 6 months). It did this at 100m consistently with Factory remington 150gr CoreLokt ammo.

These days with my bone stock Norc M14S, I get 3-5 MOA with factory. I gotta get to handloading some 7.62x51 one of these days...

 

[M14Doctor]

This has not been my experience, mine have retained their accuracy without maintenance beyond an occasional cleaning and greasing.

My experience has been the same however, on my personal rifles I ditch the oprod guide roll pin and pound in a 1/8 x 3/4 knurled solid pin. I find this keeps things nice and tight, permanently

 

[Rocket Surgery]

I pounded an allen wrench into the part where the roll pin goes and hammered it in there once. I had to file down the part sticking out so it would fit in the stock properly, that kept it nice and tight even on cold nights.