arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Hahha, I love this!
Big Game Calibers - Math vs Experiences?
- Thread starter wasa
- Start date
Hahha, I love this!
I kinda like the guy over on Castboolits, that said .458 Win Mag was his go-to, for everything from Rabbits to Elephants.
As he explained, it was all a matter of how you chose to load it! A round ball and a Mouse Fart load, was fine for Rabbits. A 500+ grain solid, as fast as you could stand to drive it, was great for Elephants. And you could load for anything in between!
It was his "only caliber" choice!
This is solid advice. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve been on an elephant hunt where we have run into a rogue rabbit that needed to be put down to save some villagers, but we didn’t have any mouse fart loads with us…..(grin)
It's a valid point of view under many circumstances. On the other hand; if he had to shot at what even approaches mid-range he'd stand it in the burning barrel and never look back.
How do you figure?
Guys are routinely shooting out past 1000 yards with their BPCR rifles with black powder. Seems to me, the guy that knows what his gun does at the various ranges, isn't at all that much a disadvantage.
I shoot blackpowder out to 1/2 mile. It's an interesting game and that's about it. You should give it a try so you can judge first-hand just how truly pathetic they are compared to a real rifle. now that doesn't mean it isn't fun or challenging; but there is a reason why that stuff became obsolete over-night.
Don’t waste your time. Energy table for ALL commercial caliber and ammo are published in Gun Digest( and many others) for years and years. They are also provide velocity- ENERGY and trajectory up to 400 yards.
Caliber choice for hunting is not just energy. It’s what the hunting laws allow for a starter.
For big game, the best caliber is the one you can shoot accurately. Useless to have a .458 Win if you cannot hit anything with it..
Caliber choice for hunting is not just energy. It’s what the hunting laws allow for a starter.
For big game, the best caliber is the one you can shoot accurately. Useless to have a .458 Win if you cannot hit anything with it..
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True. On the other hand (true story follows) shooting a moose in the arse with a 7mm STW, and then watching it wander off into the swamp to die, isn't any help either. That was one of the co-workers I always found 'reasons' to not be in the same grid square with, while hunting...
He was pissed! He was sure, from what he had read about this new super magnum, that any nick from it was gonna blow the head clean off the moose! Some folks, they just serve to drag the Averages down a little lower...
If you can't hit it, where it matters, it doesn't matter how big or how loud you missed!
I don't see the point in beating myself silly for the sake of killing an animal that really doesn't need to be hit by a speeding logging truck to be killed. But some feel the need.
Thanks for the discussion!
I agree 100% with "Hollowpoint" that nothing beats shot placement and bullet construction. I'm sure all "legal" firearm choices for big game can get the job done if used correctly. Ontario allows any centerfire rifle to be used for deer. Yet a 17 Hornet would not make my top 200 list for a deer rifle. 410 slug during shotgun season? Not me but I'm sure many people have (< 20 yards, broadside shot I'd bet).
A FMJ projectile out of a 338 WinMag will just punch a 0.338" hole through your game. A 243 Winchester with a 55gr varmint projectile at 4000 ft/s will disintegrate on the hide of a deer.
So, energy and bullet weight contribute, but the biggest factor (to me) is the hunter and their choice of projectile.
I agree 100% with "Hollowpoint" that nothing beats shot placement and bullet construction. I'm sure all "legal" firearm choices for big game can get the job done if used correctly. Ontario allows any centerfire rifle to be used for deer. Yet a 17 Hornet would not make my top 200 list for a deer rifle. 410 slug during shotgun season? Not me but I'm sure many people have (< 20 yards, broadside shot I'd bet).
A FMJ projectile out of a 338 WinMag will just punch a 0.338" hole through your game. A 243 Winchester with a 55gr varmint projectile at 4000 ft/s will disintegrate on the hide of a deer.
So, energy and bullet weight contribute, but the biggest factor (to me) is the hunter and their choice of projectile.
Sorry, but that bolded bit, is hooey! Popular hooey, from folks that really have no experiences actually shooting small fast bullets, but still hooey.
FWIW, a decent sized Mule deer doe, .223, 50 Grains, at very near that speed, in the ribs. She took exactly two steps and craterd in. I recovered almost 40 grains of that bullet, in pieces, up against the far side leg bone. Innards (heart, lungs) were jello.
My brother took a very nice Mulie buck with the same rifle and loads, and a guest here at our Farm took a nice doe as well, with another .223, using basic commercial loads.
As one of the guys here pointed out a while back, the big argument when he was up North, was usually between the old guys that thought a .22 Hornet was all you needed for cariboo, and the younger fellas that thought you needed at least a .222.
I'll not claim that a .223 is the best all round deer cartridge, for all people, but in capable hands, it's a capable killer. And that 'disintegrate on the hide of a deer', is hooey!
Yep. Agree on both points.
Still a long ways from being convinced that anyone would chuck their rifle in a burn barrel, over it, per the posts above.
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The real question is how many firearms is the engineer going to buy. If it's one and your not gonna geek out in reloading, versus climbing down a rabbit hole.
One and done. Go to your local big box that sells ammo. See what they have, buy a rifle in one of those calibers. Said this before....270, 30-06, 7mag, 300mag. Depending on your recoil tolerance.
Reloader and geek out on rifles. I'll let you know. Close to 50 years hunting, 30 reloading. I'm sure it will come to me soon.
One and done. Go to your local big box that sells ammo. See what they have, buy a rifle in one of those calibers. Said this before....270, 30-06, 7mag, 300mag. Depending on your recoil tolerance.
Reloader and geek out on rifles. I'll let you know. Close to 50 years hunting, 30 reloading. I'm sure it will come to me soon.
Sorry, but that bolded bit, is hooey! Popular hooey, from folks that really have no experiences actually shooting small fast bullets, but still hooey.
FWIW, a decent sized Mule deer doe, .223, 50 Grains, at very near that speed, in the ribs. She took exactly two steps and craterd in. I recovered almost 40 grains of that bullet, in pieces, up against the far side leg bone. Innards (heart, lungs) were jello.
My brother took a very nice Mulie buck with the same rifle and loads, and a guest here at our Farm took a nice doe as well, with another .223, using basic commercial loads.
As one of the guys here pointed out a while back, the big argument when he was up North, was usually between the old guys that thought a .22 Hornet was all you needed for cariboo, and the younger fellas that thought you needed at least a .222.
I'll not claim that a .223 is the best all round deer cartridge, for all people, but in capable hands, it's a capable killer. And that 'disintegrate on the hide of a deer', is hooey!
You're probably right. I've never considered a 55gr projectile for deer based on info from relatives, magazines, and internet lore. Might be fine but i suspect i will never test that theory.
Math vs experience.
I’ve had faster kills with my 243 then my 375.
But I’ve found light and fast kill different then big and slow.
Big and slow drives holes deep and tent to not blood shot a lot of meat. But animals tend to not drop on the spot unless spine is hit.
Light and fast tent to have that energy dump that drops animals on the spot.
Bloodshot meat and bone fragments. Bang flop.
This is what I’ve noticed anyway
I tend to like the big and slow for somthng I’m eating
I’ve had faster kills with my 243 then my 375.
But I’ve found light and fast kill different then big and slow.
Big and slow drives holes deep and tent to not blood shot a lot of meat. But animals tend to not drop on the spot unless spine is hit.
Light and fast tent to have that energy dump that drops animals on the spot.
Bloodshot meat and bone fragments. Bang flop.
This is what I’ve noticed anyway
I tend to like the big and slow for somthng I’m eating
I can tell you a 32g 204 ruger will scramble the whole boiler room of a deer at 100yrds.
Now hit that deer in the shoulder you probably wont be happy.
