Other than placement how’s does this bullet do a poor job?
Big Game Calibers - Math vs Experiences?
- Thread starter wasa
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Other than placement how’s does this bullet do a poor job?
A .270 as overkill, very interesting observation bb. I admire your comfort level with your Grendel. I carried a lightweight 6.5x55 for a few years and it's on game performance was very adequate with a 130 accubond. I may go back to carrying that rifle more in the future. The bullet I would try in that 6.5x55 now would be the 110 Hammer Hunter. Just a different approach. If I thought most of my shots were going to be out past 200 yrds I would seriously consider your 140 eld-m but most of my shots are sub 300. It's great we have so many good bullet choices these days. I do agree that it is important to choose a bullet that fits into your velocity window so it can preform the way it is intended to. I like your insight bb and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I would be a bit nervous dealing with my Goat/Mulley at the top of the slidepath with a Grendel and 140-eld-m's when I was flying solo. Your comfort level is better than mine in that situation and good on you for it. Go kill a bunch of animals with that combination.
I would be a bit nervous dealing with my Goat/Mulley at the top of the slidepath with a Grendel and 140-eld-m's when I was flying solo. Your comfort level is better than mine in that situation and good on you for it. Go kill a bunch of animals with that combination.
Absolute truth right there.
I was told this have been saying this since I was taught to shoot.
for over 50 years I have been killing game on the trapline and guiding as well as hunting by myself and with friends.
We have used and have seen used a multitude of cartridges from the the .22 centerfires , various 6.5's ranging from the 6.5X54 to the 6.5STW, big .45's and everything in between.
The only constant thing that was involved in one shot kills regardless of cartridge, distance or critter was shot placement - period.
All else is secondary.....
Cat
Then bullet placement was the issue, not caliber. Got it.
...or what else it penetrated on its way to the deer in question. A small tree...another deer...?
This is an interesting find on a dinnerplate, but really nothing more; certainly not an argument against any cartridge (like the .243) or for any other cartridge...like the .22-250...
...or what else it penetrated on its way to the deer in question. A small tree...another deer...?
This is an interesting find on a dinnerplate, but really nothing more; certainly not an argument against any cartridge (like the .243) or for any other cartridge...like the .22-250...
That is an extremely expanded case in the photos for sure. It has me wondering g about just how it eventually ended up on Mig25's dinner plate as well!
Cat
My point is, I believe the 243 demands better bullets than the typical factory loads have, even more so than the hot 22's. I'd hunt deer with factory 22-250; 55 or 64 grain loads, I'd reload for the 243.
I can't prove the bullet on my plate came fro a 243, but I have seen other instances were bullets from the 243 have failed to penetrate the chest on deer, Federal in the red and white box.
I can't prove the bullet on my plate came fro a 243, but I have seen other instances were bullets from the 243 have failed to penetrate the chest on deer, Federal in the red and white box.
Sure. Anybody with any biological sense would know that bullet didn’t pass through vitals. How you found it is curious.
saskgunowner101
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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And yet, my experience as a guy who uses a 243 is completely different. Imagine that. The last 4 deer between my wife and I were shot with the 243, 3 with Fed cup n core blue box and one with a reload. While it's always a coin toss on whether the bullet goes out the other side with 100 grain bullets (which in all honesty can be a negative for following a blood trail), the internals are trashed and surprisingly you get shock/radiating meat damage, sometimes more than you'd think. When you screw up and shoot a deer with the Fed blue box 80 grain bullet because you're a dummy and mixed up the ammo sleeves, the results are even more dramatic. If you need an excuse to donate more than your fair share of meat to your dog, this is the way.
The watered down reload was the most interesting, as it was a 100 grain Sierra #1560 loaded down to 2,400 fps for my wife. She will absolutely not shoot further than 100 meters, so I made her some close range cartridges. She was sick, so I tried it out. Magically, it worked the same as the others, except it punched a nice hole out the far side, and the deer left a blood trail Stevie Wonder could follow.
All this being said, I don't think it will sway your opinion one little bit, but at least anyone else reading this can get a fair sense of how the 243 performs.
World beater? No.
Best cartridge ever? No.
Great blood trail from fast moving cup n core? Probably not.
Bounce off deer/fail to penetrate? Fisherman story.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You’ll find the .270 and .270 WSM do even more 0-200, which shouldn’t prove revolutionary to any here. The argument the 6.5 Gren is proving more effective when shooting what is utterly the same bullet, 200 yards of range slower, is what got me out of my rocking chair.
I like the 6.5 Gren, have built two nice rifles in it, it’ll hunt really well but it’s no .270 WSM, and certainly not in ease of use and trajectory. My head guide took his personal grizz with a .270 WSM, up close and personal. It did exactly what we expect it too, he didn’t need to back off 250 yards to make it hit the goldilocks zone.
exactly, just guessing, but looks like it held together, so it wasn't lacking on sd, it would appear it was lacking on impact velocity, assuming not some weird angle shot that never was in line with vitals to begin with, somebody sending it with 5-6' of Kentucky hold over was my deduction also
either way, one part of the necessary formula wasn't present, looks like impact velocitynot trying to sell what I've come to like, kids and I dumped 3 whitetails across valley at 300, 355, and 420 yards with Grendel 16" barrel with only 2386 fps launch no issues, nice 140-150 class mature buck, big doe, first year fawn, the big doe at 420 drt, the 123 hit at 1800 fps there, eld-m's work perfectly from muzzle to 500 in that set up, I'd sheep hunt with this no prob, and have, took my last ewe draw at 170, spectacular tip over backwards drt, one of my other ewes was a .270 wsm at 300, another was a .270 win at 300 and my ram was at 35 with .270 wsm, both the ewes did broadside runners further than I was expecting, but not further than any other typical lung hits ~50 yards, the ram and grendel ewe dropped on the spot (ram was high shoulder, ewe was right behind shoulder in the middle, staggered a few steps back then up and over backwards
bullet is designed to do certain things in certain impact velocity windows, I like on game performance of ballistic tips/a-max/eld-m's with high sd's driven at moderate velocities, find shorter recoveries to drt's over the tougher bullet options I've used, if I'm gonna shoot faster then I need tougher bullets or even higher than higher than normal sd's for more rapid expansion, it's not a hard blend to achieve for game intended, find a bullet you'd like to use, figure out your range limits, then figure out what cartridge drives said bullet in the window to make bullet work best within your range limits, easy formula, ft/lbs doesn't matter one second in the figuring of it, I would shoot a ram, an elk or moose in the ribs with my short grendel at 400 and think nothing of it, that .252 sd eld-m will do great work over ~20" of penetration there, walk in the park, the fat doe I took at 420 was quartering pretty sharply, one hole in front of chest to one side, other hole 15" away out middle of rib cage, took out the good stuff atop the heart, bullet kept on trucking, drt, not much we chase will take that .252 sd bullet that opens up nicely at 1800 fps and walk away, I could add 125 yards to that 1800 fps impact distance with 24" barrel but no need, don't really plan to go that far on big game anymore, the doe was only because I was doubling up on doe tags after my kid took one at 355, I grabbed the gun and knocked the second one down so further than I'd normally want to go
You’ll find the .270 and .270 WSM do even more 0-200, which shouldn’t prove revolutionary to any here. The argument the 6.5 Gren is proving more effective when shooting what is utterly the same bullet, 200 yards of range slower, is what got me out of my rocking chair.
My head guide took his personal grizz with a .270 WSM, up close and personal. It did exactly what we expect it too, he didn’t need to back off 250 yards to make it hit the goldilocks zone.
sorry, you guide took his personal frizz with what sd, impact velocity and construction type?
the Goldilocks zone is 500 yards for the 6.5 123gr eld-m (happens to be muzzle to 500 for a grendel, happens to match 99% of hunters Goldilocks zone also)...that zone is even larger for the 6.5 140-147's from a creedmoor or prc that's why the creedmoor is in the Goldilocks zone for what 99.8% of hunters will ever need (muzzle all the way out past 600) the higher sd allows for that faster up close work, in the prc those 140-147 eld-ms likely a little too hot the first hundred yards but that extra high sd will still get it done impressively and from there to 800+ it's in the Goldilocks zone where the .02% will play on game at the far end, take your pick, we're learning about the formula to use here for whatever it is we do, the 6.5 CM with 140 eld-m's is a beautifully matched rockstar for 0-600 yard work for those who like to hunt big game and prefer shorter recoveries that some of the high horsepower tough bullet combo's give, beat your shoulders if you like, not necessary, lots will be saying that .270 wsm your buddy used isn't enough for g-bears...I have zero issue with that choice but the bullet choice for it would be highly scrutinized, lucky most bullets for that cartridge are likely to have enough formula anyway so not hard to get it wrong
and yes I hear you on the first 200 yards, I'm ok with regular dead, don't need faster dead lol, again, not trying to sell what I use, just trying to explain why I use it and it works, and after 5 seasons, 3 shooters (2 of them kids getting started), and 15 head regular dead to fast dead, walked right up to after, no overnighting, no miserable tracking jobs, 10-420 yards, average shot distance 163 yards, average recovery distance 13 yards, 1 young bull moose, 3 black bear, 1 big muley buck, 5 whitetail bucks, 3 whitetail does, 1 sheep (mature ewe), and wolf, all in Alberta...the formula works, easy to place well because it's easy to shoot, there's no replacement for placement
I'd want a 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 eld-m's for the g-bears
, few hundred yards in the ribs, wouldn't think anything of it, walk in the park. exactly, it's not hard to get one the important parameters wrong when playing on the niche end of the cartridge scale, not enough sd for construction and impact velocity for game intended is easy to get wrong with the light bullets in the .243 as it offers lots of lightweight frangible bullet options at very high speeds which equal shallow penetration more suited to coyotes/wolves, if light need to be mono or bonded, otherwise be heavy for cal and moderate construction and it's a star to 300 yards
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'd want a 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 eld-m's for the g-bears
Wouldn’t be my first choice, but it’d work and better than a .45-70. From what I witnessed on too many animals, your hypothesis isn’t yet a theory; the fast rounds consistently outperformed the moderate ones. At 20 yards, and at 500.
Losing energy doesn’t make for a more effective round. Bullets can be optimized for slower impacts, but that doesn’t overcome the fact energy dumped inside the animal does damage. The more energy you have, the more damage you can do, that won’t be a surprise to anyone here.
As you note, the one fly in the ointment can be penetration. With the bullets we recommended, we never had a shortage of that. As fast as you could push them, they still had plenty on our game.
