biggest caliber with the lightest recoil

Mr. Friendly

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big = better, right? but it usually comes with increased recoil that's difficult to manage.

from your years of experience, what is the biggest cartridge/bullet weight you've shot that has a surprisingly light recoil?

I've always heard that the European cartridges are more of a push compared to the shove for North American cartridges. :yingyang:
 
My .45 Colt. Or my .44 Rem. Mag.

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The 450 Nitro express is quite mild for what you're getting. So is the .458 that was brought out to replace it, at least in factory loaded form. The 450-400 is like thistle down settling on calm water. The .375 H&H is very easy to shoot. The thing is, the 375 isn't big and the others aren't fast. Crank the speed up on bullets that size and it'll transform into something that isn't so easy to ignore. The difference between my first 375 H&H and the same rifle redone to .375 Weatherby is dramatic. The 375 RUM and .378 are more of the same. A .458 Lott loaded up there is a different beast than .458 Win that factory loaded might struggle for 1900 fps.

If there is a bright side its that whatever you're shooting is going to get nailed harder then you are. First one to stand up wins. ;)
 
My 45 colt is similar to a 22.
The 4570 will get your attention but is very mild.
The 375 h&h needs to be held properly but is a pussycat really.

There is no free lunch, e will always equal mc2
 
The combination of a low pressure cartridge like the .43 Mauser (.446 caliber) in a heavy rifle like the 1871 Mauser should be the definition of powder puff. It fires a 370 gr bullet at 1400 fps.
 
big = better, right? but it usually comes with increased recoil that's difficult to manage.

from your years of experience, what is the biggest cartridge/bullet weight you've shot that has a surprisingly light recoil?

I've always heard that the European cartridges are more of a push compared to the shove for North American cartridges. :yingyang:

Why do you think big=better? What does "big" mean? What does "better" mean? What is "surprisingly light recoil"? How does one compare a "push" to a "shove"? I'm not just being difficult; meaningful definitions are important if you want meaningful responses.

The simple facts of recoil are that the more energy and mass that goes out the end of the barrel, the more recoil is produced at the other end of the gun. In addition, increased velocity of all that stuff will increase recoil. It's pure physics, so there is no escaping the consequences of shooting bullets from guns.
 
well, push is fairly descriptive, slow to start but ramps up quickly and is suddenly done,...but to counter, shove is more sudden, like a kick, with a very sharp feeling. I've not had any experience with any European cartridges, but I have shot the usual suspects, .243, .308, .30-06, .45-70 (15" barrel no less), .50 cal muzzle loader and the .458 Win.

as to bigger = better, my mind's reference was how heavier/slower bullets take down an animal with minimal meat loss. with the .45-70, many comments are that they can eat 'right up to the bullet hole', which is not so true with faster bullets. the solid copper usually have small entry, but huge exit...wasted meat. cheap but fast bullets fragment and cause a lot of blood shot damage, wasted meat.

regarding recoil...Chuck Hawk's table comments that anything under 20lbs can be maintained. higher, sustained shooting will develop a flinch while the lower you go, the more comfortable it is to handle. so anything that you can do sustained shooting without developing a flinch or suffer any strain or relative soreness afterwards.

many questions I ask are open ended, with the hopes of someone sharing their thoughts/experiences that can allow for questions to define what they find to meet those rudimentary specifics. my interpretation of what is shared will be based on the above benchmarks. :)
 
There is no more wasted meat than an unrecovered animal. I have never worried about eating up to the bullet hole. I do worry about killing cleanly, quickly, and humanely.

So bullet performance for me is measured by how reliably (not how fast, but how consistently with repeatable results) a bullet puts an animal down. The old DRT trope is not important, because there is simply nothing that will do it every time. My experience seems to indicate that high speed frangible bullets make for more DRT animals than big and slow, depending of course on where the shot goes, and I do not like to shoot big game with highly frangible bullets. CNS shots are the most dramatic of all, but I seldom try for that as the targets are all way smaller than I like in hunting situations. So I want a bullet that produces violent enough expansion inside the animal to be certainly lethal, but which will always penetrate completely on broadside shots so that there will be enough reliable penetration to reach vital organs on angling shots, and for the useful blood trail that usually results. Bigger is not necessarily better to me. Big enough is necessary, but that is way smaller than .458 for N.A. game in my view. There is no doubt that larger diameter bullets can kill effectively, but there is nothing magical about them. Bullets up to about .338 or .35 are plenty big enough for me and can do everything I need done. Far more important to me is bullet construction than actual bullet diameter or weight.

I also want a trajectory that can work at any range I want to shoot, and that includes longer shots than I would be willing to attempt with something like the .45-70. Any of the "usual suspects" you mention (and many others) will have an almost identical trajectory out to about 350 to 400 yards, and all of them are certainly "usable" with a little thought and calculation on the shooter's part. I don't shoot at any living things beyond that, but I will shoot if I have a good enough rest and a stationary target out to that range. That means bigger is not necessarily better to me again, and I seldom think about needing anything bigger than about .338 or .35 for anything I do. There are cases that will drive all those bullets fast enough to give me the trajectory I need for hunting.

More important than bullet diameter and weight is bullet construction. I do tend to favor "heavy for caliber" bullets as I have found that the combination of expansion and reliable penetration usually comes in heavier bullets for any given caliber, but I seldom use the heaviest because of my desire to preserve as much trajectory as I can get from my hunting cartridges. I will reveal my age by saying the first bullets that I used that performed as I want were the Nosler Partitions, and I still measure other bullets by the performance I got from them. There have been serious advances in bullet technology in recent years, and there are now others that perform as well, but very few that I believe are real advancements over that tested design.

All cartridges suitable for hunting big game animals in N.A. will have some recoil. Anyone who has no major health issues, and who is willing to learn proper shooting techniques, and who is willing to practice can easily learn to shoot cartridges that have way more theoretical recoil than Chuck Hawk's 20 ft/lbs limits without flinching. It's true that the vast majority of hunting cartridges used in N.A. have recoil that is less than the 20 ft/lb level, but to suggest that is some sort of limit is just silly. Chuck Hawks says quite a few things like they are ultimate truths when, in fact, they are just things he says to sound like he knows stuff others don't. Felt recoil (as opposed to calculated recoil) is very dependent on stock design and fit. I feel most people who talk about "pushes"vs "shoves" are actually talking about stock design and not cartridges at all.

My advice is to find a cartridge that will give you the trajectory, the terminal performance, and reliable humane killing of the game you are hunting, and learn to shoot it well. There are no rules like "Bigger is Better", or "20 ft/lbs of recoil is the limit", or you need to be able "to eat right to the bullet hole" that you need to learn or follow, because there are LOTS of cartridges that are suitable for hunting in N.A. that you could use for a lifetime and have no regrets. You can learn to shoot anything normally considered a hunting round if you want and have a good fitting stock.

Looking for the biggest caliber with the lightest recoil is a waste of effort. If it is a big bullet, and it has very little recoil, it will be because it's not very suitable for hunting. If it is big and heavy, and it is suitable for hunting, you can expect some serious recoil.
 
I have hunted a lot of big game, and put many, many, tons of meet in the freeezer over the past 50+ years. While guiding I have seen everything from mountain sheep and goats to bear, bison, deer and moose in the low country, using cartridges as light as the 243 to the 375 H&H and the 458 Win.

My personal experience is that one gets the most effect on game for the recoil endured using the 9.3X62 with 285 gr bullets loafing along at 23-2400 fps. Easy to handle, accurate, and with bullets designed specifically for that one cartridge, IIRC in over 40 years experience I have seen just one animal get up after being hit with that load.

Have shot an awful lot of game with the 358 Norma Magnum and the 375 H&H as well, but today the 9.3 gets taken afield more than either one.
Ted
 
Simple physics... you want more out the front, you get more out the back.

If you are asking the question, the .308 Win is for you...

If you are solely interested in a big hole in the muzzle, get a .45/70 and load it down trapdoor style... you can lob 500 grain chunks of lead with .308 recoil, although you can almost outrun the bullet to the target.
 
I've been using Federal 130 gr. Barnes TTSX in my .300 Win for several years (no longer available), and it tamed my Vanguard to about the same recoil as a 30.06...maybe even less than some.

As stated above, there's no short cuts around shot placement. But certainly recoil can play a big part in one's ability to get shot placement right.

I've read so many accounts now by too many gun writers who have been told by more guide outfitters than one cares to think about that of all the hunters who show up in camp with a .300 Win Mag, about 30% of 'em can handle the recoil, and the rest are scared of their rifles, and thus can't shoot worth a damn.

Unfortunately, good ol' manly ego seems to often get in the way of accurate, and thus humane hunting practices.
 
I'll second Ted's recommendation, but with a different bullet. The 9.3x62 with the 250gr TTSX is more of a push than anything. I'd rather shoot this combo than the 30-06 with 180gr or even 150gr bullets. I'm not particularly recoil-sensitive, mind you, but the 9.3 is a pussycat. Great cartridge.
 
big = better, right? but it usually comes with increased recoil that's difficult to manage.

from your years of experience, what is the biggest cartridge/bullet weight you've shot that has a surprisingly light recoil?

I've always heard that the European cartridges are more of a push compared to the shove for North American cartridges. :yingyang:

Felt recoil has as much to do with stock design, rifle weight, bullet weight, velocity, and the shooter himself as it does with the cartridge chosen.
 
Felt recoil has as much to do with stock design, rifle weight, bullet weight, velocity, and the shooter himself as it does with the cartridge chosen.

Yes, to a point. I would only ad that no one is born with recoil tolerance. Moving up in power level and shooting a lot as you go helps. It builds confidence, expectation of result, and shooting form.

Most people who ask about recoil are afraid of being hurt. Mostly it's experience with a bad rifle...stock design as Super Cub says. As experienced shooters it's our job to mentor newbies, sometimes protecting them from us, other times from themselves.

I can't think of a better way of scaring kids or wives from joining us in our pastime than handing them a boomer when they are not ready.

My favorite blend of large with low recoil. The king, 375 H&H. Probably it's ballistic twin the Ruger would be OK. Just seems that most H&H I have seen are rather heavy, which helps for felt recoil, newer rifles in the Ruger probably lighter.
 
Most people who ask about recoil are afraid of being hurt. Mostly it's experience with a bad rifle...stock design as Super Cub says. As experienced shooters it's our job to mentor newbies, sometimes protecting them from us, other times from themselves.
On separate occasions I've taken three different teenage boys to the range who had no previous shooting experience. None came from shooting families so did not come with the 'recoil fear" baggage that would be instilled by hearing stories of recoil and it's effects.

One all three trips I had them shooting my 375magnum at the end of the trip with ease. I used a bit of coaching and started them with a 223 working up. It was most gratifying to see the results.
 
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