Bird Shot in your Home Defense Shotgun
- Thread starter Big Bad
- Start date
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
lolol love it.
my house in Ontario when I lived there was 3/8 drywall, covered in 3/4 inch of concrete/ parging something or other, the 1/4 inch of plaster which gave me interior walls of 1 3/8 inch ish thick. it was built in mid to late `50s.
It was a nightmare to renovate, but we did save a piece where a hole was cut for access to plumbing. .22lr would not penetrate at 10 feet, birdshot barely scarred the paint- probably more dangerous to the shooter than the target with all the bounce back. 00 buck went thru, as did .303 british, and 7.62 x 39. we were not able to test any pistol calibres.
all the interior walls were made this way. I`d have been comfortable with a shotgun for intruder defense in that house.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Thats why a good ammo belt has a fielders choice of different natures. Bird shot, double ought buck, #4 cut shells, and slugs.
Birdshot is just my default when I go from asleep to ready as quickly as possible. As soon as you have a grip on the situation you can cycle as appropriate.
Interesting comment. Please, tell me what shotgun you own that can maintain consistent patterns of 3" with birdshot @ 20 yards? What choke are you using?
Of the +20 pages of this thread, I don't think I've read anyone mention the use of reduced recoil (lower velocity) 00 buckshot. 2 3/4" #4 buck or reduced recoil 00 buck would be my personal preference for defensive applications. They're proven performers under a wide range of potential situations.
When I was a kid, I took part of a pattern of 12 gauge, 4 shot, to the side of my face and shoulder from approximately 20 to 25 metres away. I know it was 4 shot as I still get the occasional pellet make its way to the surface. Airport security checks have always been difficult. Several pellets stopped at the bone while others on the side of my head tore straight lines through the skin. Quite a number of pellets punched through the layers of sweater, denim jacket, and vest I was wearing and into the muscle in my neck and shoulder. Thankfully nothing hit my eyes or anything vital in my neck or torso.
As for the effects of the shot, it was like being hit by a giant baseball bat. I went down hard. The pellets that hit my head hurt like hell, each being another baseball bat. I did not black out but there was no getting up fast and walking it off as the movies might portray. It was a massive concussion. At the time I did not feel the many little holes in my body, just the impact of the aforementioned baseball bat. I could move the effected parts of my head, neck, and shoulder very slowly but it hurt to do so. I expected to see more blood but there was actually very little other than in my hairline above my ear. Loads of swelling around the punctures on my forehead.
I often considered this experience during my time in both the military and law enforcement. Birdshot would definitely put a person down but would not likely kill unless under 5 metres. I get the penetration aspect and keep a few slugs and zero buck around but feel 2s or BBs might give a bit more punch to put down the badguy without ripping through all the walls in a house.
As for the effects of the shot, it was like being hit by a giant baseball bat. I went down hard. The pellets that hit my head hurt like hell, each being another baseball bat. I did not black out but there was no getting up fast and walking it off as the movies might portray. It was a massive concussion. At the time I did not feel the many little holes in my body, just the impact of the aforementioned baseball bat. I could move the effected parts of my head, neck, and shoulder very slowly but it hurt to do so. I expected to see more blood but there was actually very little other than in my hairline above my ear. Loads of swelling around the punctures on my forehead.
I often considered this experience during my time in both the military and law enforcement. Birdshot would definitely put a person down but would not likely kill unless under 5 metres. I get the penetration aspect and keep a few slugs and zero buck around but feel 2s or BBs might give a bit more punch to put down the badguy without ripping through all the walls in a house.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
I'd be interested to see a comparative analysis of reduce recoil loads in a full length barrel vs standard recoil loads in a short barrel. And then reduced recoil loads in a short barrel.
Have you seen any data on velocities if low recoil ammo in any barrel? Its certainly an option worth considering.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My guess: A super-dooper-fuller choke. Available from the same stores that sells sks that shoot 1/2 MOA at 600 yards with Chinese surplus ammo...
House I'm restoring (basically building) is ironwood log cabin and 2' field stone exterior walls with half the interior log cabin too. I wanted to put ar500 plates under all the upstairs windows but without sprawling it would've been problematic. If they some how get in though, I've designed the interior lines of sight to provide clean flight paths for ballistic projectiles, backed with 12" of ironwood and/or 2' of field stone. There is virtually no scenario (unless it involves obscure angles at melee distance) that I wouldn't be able to safely discharge up to .44mag, without injuring non combatants who follow their protocols (or neighbors.) Yes I'm aware how this reads.. plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Cheers.
P.s. birdshot is more than enough for 99% of civilian home defence scenarios.
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Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Is there a link to the back story? How do you know its bird shot? How do you know it a hit?
Sidenote, did that other guy running out from what looked like a coat room actually have a gun? crazy gun fight.
It involved a shooter named Aaron Ybarra at Seattle Pacific University in 2014, where he killed one and wounded 2, using a Browning over and under shotgun.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/timeline-seattle-pacific-university-shooting/281-244056933
Here's a crime scene photo showing the shooter's low brass shells.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Sounds about right to me.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I've spent 39 years in the field artillery - that ship has already sailed...
Paul finally got around to making a video on the question of wax slugs the other day. #7.5 seemed to perform about exactly as I'd expected from low recoil shells - excellent accuracy, excellent penetration, zero over-penetration. A slug or 00 buck are going to go through whatever walls and outside and probably into the next house. Not so good. Bigger pellets not such a good idea, in fact outright bad idea. So I'll be sticking with #7.5 at around 1200fps. Might help reduce the ear bleeding should it ever come to necessity of use in the middle of the night.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Been there done that, got the CF 98. If keeping mouth open made a difference, I am not sure it mattered much.
