Black Creek Labs AR180 based rifle SVR2 Siberian approved for Non restricted FRT

I'm gonna agree with everyone here saying that having to take the gas block off to clean the piston isn't ideal but I don't consider it to be a deal breaker. Given that the suggested interval for cleaning the gas system is every 1500rds (and that I know of a few WS that have gone 5-6k rounds with no cleaning of the gas system) and the usual expected barrel life is about 10k rounds, you'd have to take off the gas block a total of about 6 times before replacing the barrel. Given that it has dimples to locate the set screws over the gas port, I'm not exactly stressed about properly aligning the gas block and am pretty sure that the set screws can handle being removed and re-installed 6 times. It's also highly probable that a redesigned gas block (either from the manf or aftermarket) that allows tool-less takedown will come out at some point and be retrofitable. All that aside, I'd be curious how many of the people bemoaning having to remove the gas block to clean the gas system even shoot 1500rds in a year, or 2 or 3...
 
rugbydave said:
I'm gonna agree with everyone here saying that having to take the gas block off to clean the piston isn't ideal but I don't consider it to be a deal breaker. Given that the suggested interval for cleaning the gas system is every 1500rds (and that I know of a few WS that have gone 5-6k rounds with no cleaning of the gas system) and the usual expected barrel life is about 10k rounds, you'd have to take off the gas block a total of about 6 times before replacing the barrel. Given that it has dimples to locate the set screws over the gas port, I'm not exactly stressed about properly aligning the gas block and am pretty sure that the set screws can handle being removed and re-installed 6 times. It's also highly probable that a redesigned gas block (either from the manf or aftermarket) that allows tool-less takedown will come out at some point and be retrofitable. All that aside, I'd be curious how many of the people bemoaning having to remove the gas block to clean the gas system even shoot 1500rds in a year, or 2 or 3...
Click to expand...
I guess there is just no perfect rifle. You all need make them perfect like using aft market stuff
 
Maybe some of these Canadian companies producing 180s should hire that kid on youtube that posted an analysis of why the pistons on these designs fail. Could make for an interesting retrofit kit made in varying lengths (rifle length please) to provide more reliability and open up more barrel options.
 
Last edited:
rugbydave said:
I'm gonna agree with everyone here saying that having to take the gas block off to clean the piston isn't ideal but I don't consider it to be a deal breaker. Given that the suggested interval for cleaning the gas system is every 1500rds (and that I know of a few WS that have gone 5-6k rounds with no cleaning of the gas system) and the usual expected barrel life is about 10k rounds, you'd have to take off the gas block a total of about 6 times before replacing the barrel. Given that it has dimples to locate the set screws over the gas port, I'm not exactly stressed about properly aligning the gas block and am pretty sure that the set screws can handle being removed and re-installed 6 times. It's also highly probable that a redesigned gas block (either from the manf or aftermarket) that allows tool-less takedown will come out at some point and be retrofitable. All that aside, I'd be curious how many of the people bemoaning having to remove the gas block to clean the gas system even shoot 1500rds in a year, or 2 or 3...
Click to expand...

if you do any amount of shooting in cool or cold weather I can assure you the cleaning interval will be much shorter than 1500 rounds.
 
barsik said:
if you do any amount of shooting in cool or cold weather I can assure you the cleaning interval will be much shorter than 1500 rounds.
Click to expand...

I thought these rifles haven't even hit the market yet? Have you tried one out already and had to clean the gas system due to cold weather?
 
rugbydave said:
I'm gonna agree with everyone here saying that having to take the gas block off to clean the piston isn't ideal but I don't consider it to be a deal breaker. Given that the suggested interval for cleaning the gas system is every 1500rds (and that I know of a few WS that have gone 5-6k rounds with no cleaning of the gas system) and the usual expected barrel life is about 10k rounds, you'd have to take off the gas block a total of about 6 times before replacing the barrel. Given that it has dimples to locate the set screws over the gas port, I'm not exactly stressed about properly aligning the gas block and am pretty sure that the set screws can handle being removed and re-installed 6 times. It's also highly probable that a redesigned gas block (either from the manf or aftermarket) that allows tool-less takedown will come out at some point and be retrofitable. All that aside, I'd be curious how many of the people bemoaning having to remove the gas block to clean the gas system even shoot 1500rds in a year, or 2 or 3...
Click to expand...


You raise a really good point.

I can only speak for myself, but if I bring other guns along, a ~2 hour range session usually only lasts for around a 100 rounds or so. If I stretch it out, spend an afternoon and limit the guns I bring, I usually don't fire more than 200. If I don't clean after every outing, I at least try to oil it down, especially the carbon built up to a) loosen it and b) because carbon deposits are hygroscopic, they will eat into the steel eventually, even past chrome lining, if it is bad enough build up and left for long enough.

So for someone to leave it for a year or two, they may have rust and pitting to deal with as well as the carbon.
 
Gatehouse said:
I thought these rifles haven't even hit the market yet? Have you tried one out already and had to clean the gas system due to cold weather?
Click to expand...

no don't have one yet, but everything else I shoot in cold weather gets an extra helping of unburned powder.
 
rugbydave said:
You can also buy a CZ Bren 2...
Click to expand...

While I’m in a list preorders of Bren I have to say with the price tag it’s non comparable to this BCL. And it’s still not a perfect one. Ppl complains about 16 inch barrel been front heavy. Who know what issues we will have when NR versions get into Canada. I would say AR15 is perfect but no one can enjoy one
 
rugbydave said:
I'm gonna agree with everyone here saying that having to take the gas block off to clean the piston isn't ideal but I don't consider it to be a deal breaker. Given that the suggested interval for cleaning the gas system is every 1500rds (and that I know of a few WS that have gone 5-6k rounds with no cleaning of the gas system) and the usual expected barrel life is about 10k rounds, you'd have to take off the gas block a total of about 6 times before replacing the barrel. Given that it has dimples to locate the set screws over the gas port, I'm not exactly stressed about properly aligning the gas block and am pretty sure that the set screws can handle being removed and re-installed 6 times. It's also highly probable that a redesigned gas block (either from the manf or aftermarket) that allows tool-less takedown will come out at some point and be retrofitable. All that aside, I'd be curious how many of the people bemoaning having to remove the gas block to clean the gas system even shoot 1500rds in a year, or 2 or 3...
Click to expand...

Such a good point. I would rather it be a solid system that doesn't break under normal use, than have the ability to clean it without 2 allen keys once per year.
 
I was taking a look at my SVT-40 and had a thought. If the gas cup was shortened on the op-rod end wouldn't that allow removal of the op-rod while the gas cup remains in place with the extra clearance (and no removal of the gas block). The op-rod could be pulled back into the reciever while holding the gas cup in place, then pulled up and out. This is how the SVT-40 is disassembled. The only issue I see is because there is no piston return spring the op-rod and gas cup might not stay mated up tightly. Then again, it might be a non issue as well.
 
ARGUNGUY said:
Such a good point. I would rather it be a solid system that doesn't break under normal use, than have the ability to clean it without 2 allen keys once per year.
Click to expand...

I think what people are saying is that there is very little excuse that it can't do both - be robust and still easily disassembled for maintenance.
 
barsik said:
if you do any amount of shooting in cool or cold weather I can assure you the cleaning interval will be much shorter than 1500 rounds.
Click to expand...

I shoot plenty in the cold and my cleaning interval for gas guns is around 1k rounds... furthermore, you can clean the barrel, bcg, etc as much as you like, the 1500rds cleaning interval is for the gas system. I don't see the cold changing that much.
 
beltfed said:
I think what people are saying is that there is very little excuse that it can't do both - be robust and still easily disassembled for maintenance.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you in regards to this. Obviously it ended up setup this way for some reason, be it cost savings, development time savings, who knows. I just don't see it as being such a huge issue, personally. Most of the 180 systems I've dealt with really don't require frequent maintenance of the gas system and at a suggested cleaning interval of 1500 rounds, I'd probably clean it twice a year. To each his own, obviously but all the 180s available to us have their own set of compromises. Choose what suits you best. Or buy a CZ Bren 2 and not really worry about any of this. that's probably what I'll do, haha.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom