Black Creek Labs AR180 based rifle SVR2 Siberian approved for Non restricted FRT

the radium king said:
"As a machinist I am just freaking out in my head looking at this rifle, I can only imagine what kind of surprises are on the inside that we cannot see."

as per your posts you are a machinist that works in the industry and here you are trashing other vendors products - are you a shill for the competition?
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A pretty fair critique given what's been presented so far.

I'm not a machinist, but if the pictures are representative of anything of what the final product is like - keep your money and run as fast away from it...
 
johhny12gauge said:
A friend who's a lefty is asking if an ambitious magazine release like the AR would work in this?
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Hard to say, from the render it looks pretty close to an AR mag release, but from the picture I have a hard time determining exactly what's going on with the mag release and what I have to figure is a ambi bolt catch above it.
 
Grove said:
As a industry member I've handled a lot of NEA and BCL products and I was not impressed at all with the quality.

Having to assemble a bunch of their firearms left me throwing tools at the wall and screaming at the top of my lungs.

The BCL102 was my final straw with BCL, nothing lined up properly on them and this AR180 disaster is the same.

BCL doesn't care about the end user as long as they get paid, they could improve quality but seem to blatantly refuse to replace worn out machines and careless employees.



I want to fully support Canadian firearm businesses don't get me wrong but with how bad some are good god just close the doors and stop giving the market the middle finger with your garbage products.
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Not wrong. Horrific QC in my experience. I
 
There is very little differential between the top of the rail and the stock they put on the prototyple.

It looks nice - but this means practically people will need a 1.93" + mount.
 
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from the video it looks like they are still working out function. if i were designing it i would make sure it worked before i turned my attention to cosmetics like rail alignment, cut lines with the stock adaptor, etc., ie, no sense working on stock adaptor cosmetics if you have to change receiver dimensions to address operational issues. best case they are out with the marketing a bit too soon. worst case is that they rush it out without addressing the more cosmetic issues (like the out of spec wk180 rail for example).

being a glass half full kinda guy, perhaps instead of calling it crap based on a few early pics, think of yourself as helping by pointing out concerns that they have yet to address to make sure it's not missed in final development.
 
the radium king said:
from the video it looks like they are still working out function. if i were designing it i would make sure it worked before i turned my attention to cosmetics like rail alignment, cut lines with the stock adaptor, etc., ie, no sense working on stock adaptor cosmetics if you have to change receiver dimensions to address operational issues. best case they are out with the marketing a bit too soon. worst case is that they rush it out without addressing the more cosmetic issues (like the out of spec wk180 rail for example).

being a glass half full kinda guy, perhaps instead of calling it crap based on a few early pics, think of yourself as helping by pointing out concerns that they have yet to address to make sure it's not missed in final development.
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Probably not a great strategy if the first impression people are going to get is of the form of the item only, of which they obviously neglected.

Function is obviously important, and they should be heavily focused on that. But don't let something of this quality (or really lack thereof) be people's first impression, especially if its not close to being released. If it's not ready, its not ready. People are more understanding of that then getting a horrible first impression. If it is being released soon and its still in that state, then yikes...
 
It’s just another pile of steaming crap from the notorious 3 letter Canadian gun company.
I wouldn’t even pull the trigger on one of their rifles after seeing the crap come from there.
 
55recce said:
Have you ever owned a BCL or fired one? Much of the hate is coming from people who have no personal experience.....
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I have owned an NEA product (CQB Carbine with PDW Suttstock) that ran for the most part once I installed an adjustable Gas Block, but suffice it to say that the firearm had issues. I didn't touch anything created by the re-branded BCL, as they were just NEA with a name-change. Now I understand that they are under new management with improved Customer Service. The real question however, is whether the products have also improved to the point that they function well, are aesthetically pleasing, and are therefore actually worth buying.

I am not adverse to giving BCL another try now that they are under new management, but first I am going to have to hear from my fellow CGNers who know about such things that the designs make mechanical sense and that the machining is properly done. Based soley on that criteria, things don't sound all that promising for the current iteration of the Siberian. Of course much can change between the prototype or toolroom model and final production specifications. I get that, and hope that the Siberian will see positive chane between now and production status. If for one do like and appreciate the fact that the Siberian has a much more compact and sleek profile than the AR180B-based competition. I am keen to take a peek inside, although I think I already have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Perhaps "SIG MCX" inspired??
 
Bartok5 said:
I have owned an NEA product (CQB Carbine with PDW Suttstock) that ran for the most part once I installed an adjustable Gas Block, but suffice it to say that the firearm had issues. I didn't touch anything created by the re-branded BCL, as they were just NEA with a name-change. Now I understand that they are under new management with improved Customer Service. The real question however, is whether the products have also improved to the point that they function well, are aesthetically pleasing, and are therefore actually worth buying.

I am not adverse to giving BCL another try now that they are under new management, but first I am going to have to hear from my fellow CGNers who know about such things that the designs make mechanical sense and that the machining is properly done. Based soley on that criteria, things don't sound all that promising for the current iteration of the Siberian. Of course much can change between the prototype or toolroom model and final production specifications. I get that, and hope that the Siberian will see positive chane between now and production status. If for one do like and appreciate the fact that the Siberian has a much more compact and sleek profile than the AR180B-based competition. I am keen to take a peek inside, although I think I already have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Perhaps "SIG MCX" inspired??
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This might finally be the one that stands out from the rest of the Kanadian made garbage sticks boys. Looks fantastic and I hope the reviews are favourable.
 
55recce said:
Have you ever owned a BCL or fired one? Much of the hate is coming from people who have no personal experience.....
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I have worked on easily 60 or more NEA15 variants and I've assembled BCL102 Gen2 rifles when they came out so my personal experience is not limited to singular product examples, I've even had the pleasure of hearing Jeff over the phone freaking out demanding anyone who calls out his poor work be fired. :D

The "quality" of the NEA products was all over the place (Catastrophic failures, severely out of spec, poor finish you name it.) and NEA got caught big time shilling their products back in 2014/15.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1199851-NEA-Issues-*WARNING*?highlight=NEA
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1574524-NEA-still-NEA-ing?highlight=NEA
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1343201-Bought-my-first-AR-NEA-in-7-62x39

If you google "NEA-15 Input or reviews" you will find a link to another Canadian firearm forum where Jeff directly gets involved in the conversation on page 3 onward

Step forward a few years to the BCL rebranding and the "quality" level is still the same where some things turn out great and others turn out terrible as seen with the BCL102s Gen2.

Come to the current day and as we have seen with the Siberian and Foxbat things still do not look good.

NEA was founded in 2008 and they still have not figured out how to stop screwing up in the factory by 2022 so what is anyone left to honestly think?
 
55recce said:
Have you ever owned a BCL or fired one? Much of the hate is coming from people who have no personal experience.....
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I find this an odd way of looking at things.

NEA/BCL have enough problems that stories are extremely numerous and widespread. NEA/BCL has admitted to a lot of errors in the past. This does not mean that every NEA/BCL product is junk, it means that your chances of getting junk are higher. Yeah, lots of people that bought one NEA/BCL product that works out well enough are happy. How does that change the unusually high rate of bad products? If over years a restaurant was known to give 10% of customers food poisoning would you go there because the 90% who didn't get food poisoning were happy?

I hope their days of putting out junk are largely over, but they even seem to be making junk Bisons, and that's a pretty simple product. A largely clean sheet 180 derivative is certainly harder than that.
 
purplezuk said:
It’s just another pile of steaming crap from the notorious 3 letter Canadian gun company.
I wouldn’t even pull the trigger on one of their rifles after seeing the crap come from there.
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This

55recce said:
Have you ever owned a BCL or fired one? Much of the hate is coming from people who have no personal experience.....
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NEA was terrible, their PDW was the biggest piece of garbage i've seen, both guns they sent to be used as range guns ate themselves alive within 1500 rounds and caused an egregious amount of damage to the upper. They were crude, unrefined and unreliable. Fast forward to the 102, another piece of garbage that hogged out the receiver in the cam pin recess on my friends upper in under 1000 rounds. You couldn't even pay me enough to test fire one of their guns let alone invest hard earned money into their products. I think we can all agree that as Canadians we want to see these companies succeed and produce quality items but NEA/BCL has failed over and over to do so.
 
Non-phixion said:
This



NEA was terrible, their PDW was the biggest piece of garbage i've seen, both guns they sent to be used as range guns ate themselves alive within 1500 rounds and caused an egregious amount of damage to the upper. They were crude, unrefined and unreliable. Fast forward to the 102, another piece of garbage that hogged out the receiver in the cam pin recess on my friends upper in under 1000 rounds. You couldn't even pay me enough to test fire one of their guns let alone invest hard earned money into their products. I think we can all agree that as Canadians we want to see these companies succeed and produce quality items but NEA/BCL has failed over and over to do so.
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My personal experience. And it was the NEW BCL (not NEA), that abandoned us with our 102 paper weights. Nice to see not everyone has amnesia.
 
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