Body Armour Sales to Civilians - VERY IMPORTANT FOR ALL!

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Chemist said:
This all started with a manufacturer contacting me that their plates are now a controlled good. I was just calling to verify and they said it includes Lvl II now. They being controlled goods.
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Can we be sure it s not solely restricting export only. I get that it could still stay a controlled good within Canada, it just seems like they are telling half truths. Perhaps I am just being hopeful that it is not a problem to sell in Canada still.

It seems we need the NFA or CSSA lawyers to do a day of poking around to find out what the truth is. I just do not trust what these people tell you guys over the phone. Anyway, I hope it is resolved in your favour as it seems you have a decent potential market for the items.
 
I ask, it is for sales in Canada as well. The number is in the link I posted on the first page, feel free to give them a call. If they say anything different let me know.

jbrow397 said:
Can we be sure it s not solely restricting export only. I get that it could still stay a controlled good within Canada, it just seems like they are telling half truths. Perhaps I am just being hopeful that it is not a problem to sell in Canada still.

It seems we need the NFA or CSSA lawyers to do a day of poking around to find out what the truth is. I just do not trust what these people tell you guys over the phone. Anyway, I hope it is resolved in your favour as it seems you have a decent potential market for the items.
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All items under Group 2 (item 2-1 to 2-22):
These items are munitions specifically designed or modified for military use such as:

•Weapons and ammunitions (machine guns & anti-tank weapons);
•Bombs, torpedoes, mines and missiles;
•Warning systems;
•Military vehicles (tanks), vessels (submarines) and combat aircraft;
•Chemical, biological and radioactive material which is used in war; and
•Protective equipment (armoured plate and body armour).
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Does this mean your not allowed to buy armoured steel plate to use for making rifle gongs?


Now I want a BPV. Not because I need it, but just because the guberment says I can't have it. :)
 
Geebus, that's too bad. So when I instruct at a range, unless I subscribe to their little ball of wax, I have to be unprotected? If I'm injured because of this, is there a specific signature at the bottom of said authorization that I can sue?

Just curious.

-S.
 
All levels of body Armour may be so can be sold to any person who is any of the following, Any type of LEO (peace officers, correctional officers, etc), any person who holds a valid PAL, and any person licensed under the security service act. There are more exceptions but i am pretty sure a majority of the people hold a PAL so there ya go.
 
You're going by your provinces law I am figuring. The controlled goods people (federal) said there is no exemption for PAL holders under federal law. Feel free to call them...I encourage it.

CalKid6 said:
All levels of body Armour may be so can be sold to any person who is any of the following, Any type of LEO (peace officers, correctional officers, etc), any person who holds a valid PAL, and any person licensed under the security service act. There are more exceptions but i am pretty sure a majority of the people hold a PAL so there ya go.
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CalKid6 said:
All levels of body Armour may be so can be sold to any person who is any of the following, Any type of LEO (peace officers, correctional officers, etc), any person who holds a valid PAL, and any person licensed under the security service act. There are more exceptions but i am pretty sure a majority of the people hold a PAL so there ya go.
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We all already knew that. This is supposed to be a new development.

If it was the same rules as before the op a site sponsor and retailer wouldn't be concerned and this would not be a thread don't ya think?
 
From the 2007 Export Controls List PDF - which is also used to define the list of controlled goods as per DPA and CGP (see this document - specifically, "For the purpose of the Controlled Goods Program (CGP), anyone dealing with the following controlled goods in Canada identified in the ECL is required to register with the CGP..."):

2-13.
Armoured or protective equipment and constructions and
components, as follows:

c. Helmets manufactured according to military standards or
specifications, or comparable national standards, and specially
designed components therefor, i.e., helmet shell, liner and
comfort pads;

d. Body armour and protective garments manufactured according
to military standards or specifications, or equivalent, and
specially designed components therefor.​

As with most legislation/regulation/etc. there are footnotes and one must always read the footnotes!!!

Note 3:
2-13.c. and 2-13.d. do not control helmets, body armour or protective garments when
accompanying their user for the user’s own personal protection.​


Based upon this, I have doubts that there is a "blanket ban" under the CGP for all types of body armor, and though I am by no means an expert here and will stand corrected if proven wrong, I would go so far as to suggest that even military style (or surplus) SAPI plates wouldn't be an issue given the wording of "Note 3".

Obviously, a further inquiry with PWGSC and DFAIT making reference to both s. 2-13 and the footnotes seeking greater clarification as it pertains to civilian ownership/use of personal body armor (range safety, etc.) should be the next step here. Even seasoned government bureaucrats can get it wrong from time to time, more especially so if the legislation & regulations are complex as in this case. If it were me, I'd seek a second opinion...


'Fly
 
who's crazy for crafting a four layer phonebook suit now?!? after surviving a few rounds, i can order a pizza to celibrate and call a taxi home.... plus it rationalizes my fear of open flames....
 
Thanks for posting that, I will ask them tomorrow.

That being said, it reads that you can own certain types for personal use. It still doesn't allow you to buy it from a business, that is the catch 22. For me to sell it to you, you must be registered under the CGP.

FlyGuy said:
From the 2007 Export Controls List PDF - which is also used to define the list of controlled goods as per DPA and CGP (see this document - specifically, "For the purpose of the Controlled Goods Program (CGP), anyone dealing with the following controlled goods in Canada identified in the ECL is required to register with the CGP..."):

2-13.
Armoured or protective equipment and constructions and
components, as follows:

c. Helmets manufactured according to military standards or
specifications, or comparable national standards, and specially
designed components therefor, i.e., helmet shell, liner and
comfort pads;

d. Body armour and protective garments manufactured according
to military standards or specifications, or equivalent, and
specially designed components therefor.​

As with most legislation/regulation/etc. there are footnotes and one must always read the footnotes!!!

Note 3:
2-13.c. and 2-13.d. do not control helmets, body armour or protective garments when
accompanying their user for the user’s own personal protection.​


Based upon this, I have doubts that there is a "blanket ban" under the CGP for all types of body armor, and though I am by no means an expert here and will stand corrected if proven wrong, I would go so far as to suggest that even military style (or surplus) SAPI plates wouldn't be an issue given the wording of "Note 3".

Obviously, a further inquiry with PWGSC and DFAIT making reference to both s. 2-13 and the footnotes seeking greater clarification as it pertains to civilian ownership/use of personal body armor (range safety, etc.) should be the next step here. Even seasoned government bureaucrats can get it wrong from time to time, more especially so if the legislation & regulations are complex as in this case. If it were me, I'd seek a second opinion...


'Fly
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One problem with that wording is that Military standard is applied to all kinds of things not necessarily military related. I regularly see plating, anodizing, most materials have a mil-spec equivalent.

Regarding Controlled Goods, I know a few machine shops who had to register even if they don't export and don't do anything of any military significance, could be door handles. I've not really been pushed for it yet but I know there's some work I no longer see and don't get to quote on. Similarly to ISO, I don't want much to do with it, there's other easier work to be had.

It's pretty much like ITAR, and we all know what kinda mess that is, most american manufacturers can't figure it out and as such take no chances.

Don't expect the economy to get better anytime soon.
 
Ouch, good thing I bought enough armour for my entire family.

I hate to say it, but I KNEW this would happen. I wonder when people will finally realize the Federal government does NOT give a crap about you. You are nothing but are a tax cow to the government and they own your life.

Everyone better stock up on ceramic floor tiles and duct tape before the government declares them to be controlled items too and prohibits dealers from selling them.
 
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harbl_the_cat said:
Ouch, good thing I bought enough armour for my entire family.

I hate to say it, but I KNEW this would happen. I wonder when people will finally realize the Federal government does NOT give a crap about you. You nothing but are a tax cow to the government and they own your life.

Everyone better stock up on ceramic floor tiles and duct tape before the government declares them to be controlled items too and prohibits dealers from selling them too.
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You will still have to buy new plate in 5 years ( they have a life time)
 
charlesquik said:
You will still have to buy new plate in 5 years ( they have a life time)
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That's what I mean - make your own.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...topping-Bullets-with-Floor-Tile-and-Duct-Tape

Body armour doesn't expire. It's manufacturers warranty does.

Such warranties have little bearing on the actual functionality of the article and is just a ploy to get people to get rid of their old, serviceable property and spend big bucks buying newer, more expensive ones.

Following that logic, my 2004 Toyota Sienna shouldn't be on the road.
 
CanAm said:
I have been battling this for years. It is all slowly creeping in to the minds of those who own items on the list.

The next guys affected are the owners of old jeeps, bren carriers, etc.

No one seems to have informed the general public.
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What about military firearms?
 
So, given this new wrinkle in sales. It would seem that EVERY surplus store in Canada is going to have to register or pull and destroy any military surplus they now own. Even if the store were registered then they would have to ensure anyone wanting to buy a pair of surplus socks or boots or a patch would have to be registered as well. Not a good thing it would seem as it relates to a lot more than body armour.
 
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