Boer War Revolvers...

sportee

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As stated on the Canadian War Museum site...

"The officers of Canada's first contingent to South Africa, the 2nd (Special Service) Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry, carried the old Colt .44 Calibre Model 1878 pistol acquired at the time of the North-West Campaign in 1885."

This is incorrect isnt it? I thought those Colt's were 45's...the 44 colt cartridge wasnt used very much in the 1873's - I thought it wasnt used at all in the 1878's
 
.44-40 cartridge, not .44 Colt cartridge.
1878 Colts were made in a variety of calibres, not just .45 Colt.
 
Heres a Gun the British Officers used in the Boer war.
Its a Wilkinson 455/476 Model 1892
This gun was actully used by its owner Francis C Loftus before he was head shot by a Boer most likely useing a mauser.

The Wilkinson was and is a fine weapon. Lightweight Accurate and the Grip is nice and big and comfortable.
Only advantage is i think the 44 40 would be a more long range Cartridge than the 476 or 455 Webley ammo.
Up close and personal tho the 476 would knock down and keep most targets that way.. Down! ;)

Click on pic to enlarge
 
Its a Wilkinson 455/476 Model 1892
This gun was actully used by its owner Francis C Loftus before he was head shot by a Boer most likely useing a mauser.
Head-shot b/c the dumb ass lifted his head over top of a rock.
lol
 
.44-40 cartridge, not .44 Colt cartridge.
1878 Colts were made in a variety of calibres, not just .45 Colt.


Hey, dont make me look ignorant :D

I know, I know, 32-20, 38 colt, 38-40, 41 colt, 44-40, 45 colt, 455, Im sure im missing some...My point was that the 1878's that were ordered for the NW rebellion were ordered in 45 colt. I know Dingus and Steve49 had one.

As far as their use in the Boer war is concerned - i thought that the war museum site had incorrect info...

...and i must have had a brain fart - when i read 44 cal i thought 44 colt - forgot about the 44-40...oops :redface:
 
Head-shot b/c the dumb ass lifted his head over top of a rock.
lol

Thats posible.
He was A British Captain and Recomended for the VC for while badly wounded himself carrying another Wounded soldier outa a feirce battle over his shoulder.
Sounds like he was the kinda guy id want to fight with. ;)

It was later at Colenso he was killed with the head shot. i guess that was another big fight.

The Boers woman and Children being starved to death in British prison camps by the thousands musta given the Boers plenty Reason to want to kill as many British as posible.
They talk about hitler and the Jews but ya never hear about what the British Did to inocent Women and Children in the Boer war EVER.

I guess its cause the Victors write the history eh.
 
Head-shot b/c the dumb ass lifted his head over top of a rock

As per dingus, I have read about everything to be read on the african campaigns Loftus fought in. And "dumb ass" is not an apt way to describe him or any other mother's son who died doing what they thought was right.

His VC recommendation was issued years and many bloody battles on african soil before his death.

I am no lover of British Imperialism, but on behalf of Mr. Loftus: you Boer Sun can Frig off and have some respect for the dead.
 
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Indeed, the Brits learned a hard lesson facing those small ring Mausers with the new staggered magazine and 7x57 chambering.

As would the Americans in the Spanish-American war.
 
As stated on the Canadian War Museum site...

"The officers of Canada's first contingent to South Africa, the 2nd (Special Service) Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry, carried the old Colt .44 Calibre Model 1878 pistol acquired at the time of the North-West Campaign in 1885."

This is incorrect isnt it? I thought those Colt's were 45's...the 44 colt cartridge wasnt used very much in the 1873's - I thought it wasnt used at all in the 1878's

Late reply, but the North-West Rebellion 1878's and the Boer War 1878's & New Services were all chambered in .45 Colt.
 
Sportee:

Yes, that statement is downright wrong! This error has been pointed out to them by myself and others - in particular, Clive Law (author of "Canadian Military Handguns, 1855-1985", among other books) but they have never corrected it.

The Model 1878 Colt revolvers purchased by the Canadian-government in 1885 and 1900 were chambered in .45 Colt.
 
As stated on the Canadian War Museum site...

"The officers of Canada's first contingent to South Africa, the 2nd (Special Service) Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry, carried the old Colt .44 Calibre Model 1878 pistol acquired at the time of the North-West Campaign in 1885."

This is incorrect isnt it?
This issue, which started out this thread, bears further comment ....

It is important to correct the erroneous impression which arises from the above quoted suggestion that it was "[t]he officers of Canada's first contingent" who carried the government-owned Colt 1878 revolvers. The facts which such an assumption ignores are that:

(a) at that time, British Empire officers (including Canadians) were required to supply all of their own kit (including weapons) at personal expense. In other words, they were not issued Government-owned revolvers - rather, they purchased whatever appealed to them and was deemed suitable - the latter consideration gave rise to a "rule" that such a privately-owned handgun should be chambered for ammunition which would be available through the official military supply system (which, for a Canadian serving in South in and after 1899 would be either the British .455 service cartridge or .45 Colt.) Having said that, it was possible for an officer to arrange for purchase of his sidearm from Government stores ... so that he might well thus own a "standard issue" pattern of revolver, but it then had become a privately owned item (and could be marked with the owner's name etc, such as is often seen.) In fact the ammunition "rule" referred to above was not universally adhered to - here, for example, is a photo of four British officers at pistol practice on the veldt - firstly, of course, these would be personally-owned weapons. Note that the revolver (possibly a Webley-Pryse such as Dingus posted a photo of) of the fellow second from the right is nickel-plated (most definitely not the finish to be expected on any British issued military revolver) and the revolver on the extreme left may also be plated. Most notable, however, is the Mauser C'96 semi-automatic pistol held by the chap on the extreme right -
c96b.jpg


(b) handguns were (and still are) very much a secondary/supplemental military weapon in any event - the rifle was (and still is) the primary small arm of any infantry force. To the extent they were issued at all, for the most part, the government-owned revolvers were issued to NCOs and "Other Ranks" who were deemed to need a handgun, such as mounted troops or others whose duties made it inconvenient for them to have a rifle as their primary firearm ..... Here is a detail from a photograph of members of the Royal Canadian Regiment who, in their capacity as buglers, could be expected to keep their rifles slung while in action (if they took them into action at all) and were thus issued with revolvers. They have adopted the rather swashbuckling practice of having their revolvers thrust into their belts, rather than holstered. These are some of the .45 cal. 1878 Colt Double Action revolvers acquired by Canada in 1885 for the North-West Rebellion which, uncustomarily (and perhaps ironically, in view of my above comments) were all nickel-plated. I don't believe that the fellow standing at right is a bugler - he has no slung bugle like the other four, nor does he have a revolver you'll note ....
2RCR_buglers4.jpg



What side arm did the Boers use?
The above comments about handguns apply generally to all military forces, of course. On top of that, the Boer Republics engaged in the Second Anglo-Boer War of 1899-1902 - the "South African Republic" (Zuid-Afrikaansche Republiek or ZAR, also referred to as the Transvaal) and the "Orange Free State" (Oranje VrijStaat or OVS) - had no standing military forces to speak of (except artillery) and the bulk of the Boer forces were non-uniformed irregulars or "guerillas" organized into Commandos, who for the most part supplied their own weapons and mounts. So, much like the Metis in Canada's 1885 North-West Rebellion, they used a wide variety of firearms. What's more, both Republics were nations of mounted - and thus highly mobile - riflemen (which the British forces soon learned in most unpleasant fashion, and had to convert the bulk of their forces to Mounted Infantry before they could start gaining the upper hand.) As a result, handguns are seldom seen in photos of Boer fighters - and just about anything available was used. In fact, I'm not aware that either Republic had any "official" military handgun at all.

The Boers woman and Children being starved to death in British prison camps by the thousands musta given the Boers plenty Reason to want to kill as many British as posible.
They talk about hitler and the Jews but ya never hear about what the British Did to inocent Women and Children in the Boer war EVER.

I guess its cause the Victors write the history eh.
It is not a commonly know fact (at least here and elsewhere in the erstwhile British Empire - except in South Africa) that the British invented the very concept, and the name, of "concentration camp" during the Second Anglo-Boer War, as Dingus has indicated. It was decided that the only way to finally defeat the free-ranging Boer Commandos .... who could simply come and go from their own farms at will, re-supplying themselves as needed ..., was to round up the women and children and "concentrate" them in such guarded camps (where they were not provided with adequate food or medical care) and then burn the farms and crops. Brutal indeed, but ultimately effective .... and also not forgotten by the Boer population of South Africa more than a century later!
 
"Brutal indeed, but ultimately effective .... and also not forgotten by the Boer population of South Africa more than a century later!"
Indeed tue. I recall travelling South Africa in younger days and the Boer had still not forgotten nor should they.
 
True, but to compare it to the German Holicost is a bit much. I did not hear of the British Gov. decision to comitt genoside. Tragic yes, but a contious decision to eradicate an entire race? The fact that there is a Boer population a century latter is proof there was not the same intent.
 
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Well theres the Odd jew still around to eh Pete :D

I dont think the British were near as Bad as the Germans tho. I meen the British were just short on supplys ect most Likely feeding themselves frist.

Its not like they were building Ovens and stuff tho.
Its still a type of war Crime to starve woman and childern to Death tho by the thousands i think it was well over 100,000 women and children.
from what i have read it was pretty brutal tho.
no one can say thats its ok just cause it was the British who did it.

What was this war Really about again Diamonds and or Gold ??
 
The point is the german gov POLICY was to exterminate whole groups. Not just the Jews but others as well. Like they say " by the time they came for my group, there was no one left to stand up"
I'm not defending what the idiot brits did. Not by a long shot. But I have yet to see that it was official brit gov POLICY to obliterate a whole group/race of people. Fcuked up big time,yes. Planned genocide? No.
 
ZAR purchases of Webleys
MkI 200
MkII 200
MkIII 6000
No4 400
WG Army 50

ZAR Mauser C96 100 Feb 1898 10000 ctgs

OVS
Webley No5 unknown qty

From "Small Arms of the Anglo Boer War' Bester.

Above is not complete but what the authour found as official purchases.
 
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