Boob questions about AR upper.

PepeLapiu

PepeLapiu

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Hey guys.
I read a few posts here.
Started shooting again after 30 years away from any guns.
I got a Norinco AR-15 carbine coming in the mail soon:
https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/dominion-arms-cq-a-rifle/

As soon as I get it I'll be looking for a long range upper to put on it. And I'll be learning to shoot long range.
If that works out and if I see I am able to put in the time/money/efforts I might get a BA110 in .338 LM.
But that's just a plan for now.

I understand an AR will only be usable on a range. But my club has a 300 M rifle range and once I can master that there are a few longer ranges within 60-90 minutes of my house.

So what kind of flat top upper/barrel should I be looking at?
Chrome or SS?
Heavy barrel of course. Twist rate?
Will I see a noticeable difference between 20" and 24" barrels?
I remember reading somewhere that the 24" barrel is not worth the extra velocity/accuracy.
Got a complete upper to suggest?
Any tips/advise you care to add?
 
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The upper you have there will reach 300m.

(to edit title click "edit" then "go advanced")

The "black and green rifle" forum will probably get you more answers
 
I've seem (on TV that is!) regular ARs shooting out to 600 yards (it was American TV). That's with a free floating barrel and the right optics. I have a Windham Weaponry AR with a 1 in 7 twist, which is good for heavier bullets, as would be needed for long distance shooting. I'm not sure if you should be looking at 5.56 ammo vs. .223, but I'm sure the info is out there somewhere. I'll be interested to see what advice you get. My range only has 25 meters available, it would be nice to get an invite to somewhere with longer distances once I go for an optic.
 
Keep in mind that Norinco ARs are not mil-spec and have compatability issues with other manufacturers. So be careful with what new upper you get. You would probably be better off just buying a new lower to go with it. Besides, if you are wanting to get into long range shooting, or just accurate shooting in general, you are going to need a new trigger anyway as most ARs are sold with crap triggers. And if you are buying a new target trigger, you might as well spend a little bit more money to get the rest of the lower, as there is not much cost there.

As for twist rate you should go for 1:7. For barrel length, I personally would not bother with a 24 inch barrel. They are not too easy to find, at least compared to shorter barrels. A 20 inch barrel I personally think would be more than enough velocity. Besides, are not most newly manufactured army Designated Marksman Rifle barrels now only 18 or 18.5 inches long? Though they have to be concerned about having a compact rifle, it can't be too much of a drop in velocity otherwise they would go for the few extra inches.
 
The longer barrel will whip around more. Hence the need to tune for harmonics and the need for heavier barrels when shooting long distance. Longer barrels will provide for more velocity. And more velocity makes for longer range and flatter bullet flight.

So a long heavy barrel is desired for long distance precision shooting.
But you will have to tune your barrel for harmonics. From what I read most handloaders do that without even knowing it when tuning their load.
 
Shooting at "300m" is a pretty vague idea.

In general, any AR with barrel no less than 12.5" will reach 300m with good authority. Barrel length is pretty much irrelevant. Barrel quality and ammo quality will determine accuracy within 300m.
 
greentips said:
Shooting at "300m" is a pretty vague idea.

In general, any AR with barrel no less than 12.5" will reach 300m with good authority. Barrel length is pretty much irrelevant. Barrel quality and ammo quality will determine accuracy within 300m.
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^^^ this.

Barrel and ammo quality are the most important things when looking for an accurate AR. After that it's the person on the trigger. People say the barrel needs to be free floated and it needs a high dollar trigger, and that direct impingement is more accurate than piston but I have a non free floated piston driven 12 inch AR with a standard milspec trigger that has printed groups under an inch at 100 yards. It's the quality of the rifle and ammo that made that happen.

Budget at least $800 for some good glass if you want to shoot beyond 300 yards. I say at least $800 as that would be my minimum. Look at scopes like Sightron SIII, Vortex Viper PST, Trijicon, etc for a good scope to start out with and be ready to move up to higher end stuff if you get serious about long range.

300 yards is nothing for almost any rifle. If you are looking for tiny groups at distance you're going to be spending a lot of money on ammo or you're going to be handloading.

I like shooting my semi auto's long range but in all honesty if I'm looking to make groups at 200+ yards I just grab a bolt action. They are more accurate and you go through less ammo. My semi's are for fun and my bolt actions are for when it's time to get serious about hitting the target where I want the bullet to go.
 
If you really want to shoot long range. Skip the AR and get a bolt gun. While an AR can reach longer distances it will be a constant battle that a bolt gun will simply eliminate.

There is no reason to have a cannon like 338LM for long range. A 308 will shoot further than most people are capable of.
 
US have done extensive testing to go with 18" barrels on 5.56 SPR's, anything longer has no significant improvement to accuracy or velocity.
 
greentips said:
Lots of ORA matches were won by carbines in the past.
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That doesn't surprise me, just that the custom builds dominated the last one I seen.

So are people suggesting buying the cheapest upper around and installing a hq barrel?
Plus a good trigger?
 
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lone-wolf said:
That doesn't surprise me, just that the custom builds dominated the last one I seen.

So are people suggesting buying the cheapest upper around and installing a hq barrel?
Plus a good trigger?
Click to expand...

There isn't a need to use any custom builds to win service rifle match when the highest scoring zone is like 2MOA at least. Shooting good ammo ( or match ammo ) out of a good military grade barrel will get you there. Losing 1/4 to 1/2 MOA to the custom match gun shooting match ammo is not a big deal, especially at 300m.

To answer the OP question, the expected target size will be a factor as to what you need to buy. If you are expect to shoot 5.5" pistol bullseye at 300m, a 1MOA setup will probably make you happier. This will involve a match barrel with match ammo, or an accurate military grade barrel shooting match ammo. If the target is a 10X10 steel plate, a run of the mill AR shooting decent factory ammo will do a more than adequate job.
 
lone-wolf said:
That doesn't surprise me, just that the custom builds dominated the last one I seen.

So are people suggesting buying the cheapest upper around and installing a hq barrel?
Plus a good trigger?
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting there is a difference in accuracy potential between different brands of uppers?
I would be willing to bet that if you took five different brand uppers and took one barrel and bolt and moved it from one upper to the next the accuracy would be the same for all five.
There are only three or four places where uppers are forged then they are shipped to different companies for rollmarks and finishing. They are all built to the same specs. Even a billet upper should be the same for accuracy potential as long as it's built to spec so everything fits properly.
 
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cr5 said:
Are you suggesting there is a difference in accuracy potential between different brands of uppers?
I would be willing to put bet that if you took five different brand uppers and took one barrel and bolt and moved it from one upper to the next the accuracy would be the same for all five.
There are only three or four places where uppers are forged then they are shipped to different companies for rollmarks and finishing. They are all built to the same specs. Even a billet upper should be the same for accuracy potential as long as it's built to spec so everything fits properly.
Click to expand...

Not suggesting, asking. Cause I'm half looking for the same things as the OP.
 
Dietz said:
A longer barrel does not = a more accurate barrel, it's quite the opposite actually.
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well yes and no, its not as simple as saying a generic comment like that.

actually length dies have an impact on accuracy, a 7 inch barrel will not shoot the same as the same barrel in 15 inches.
i mean really... so yes at one point an extremely short barrel will negatively affect accuracy.
 
mikethebike said:
well yes and no, its not as simple as saying a generic comment like that.

actually length dies have an impact on accuracy, a 7 inch barrel will not shoot the same as the same barrel in 15 inches.
i mean really... so yes at one point an extremely short barrel will negatively affect accuracy.
Click to expand...

My 6.5 inch AR would shoot sub 2 moa at 100 yards, that's better than a few 16 inch rifles.
If you take 2 identical 14.5 inch barrels and cut one down to 7.5 inches and shoot the same ammo the 7.5 will experience less barrel whip and should shoot tighter groups with the same ammo at less than 100 yards. You can tune the ammo to the barrel whip or get lucky and find a factory load that is in tune with the longer barrel but all things being equal the shorter barrel should shoot better than the long one.
If you factor in wind or extended distances then the higher velocity bullet will experience less wind drift and a flatter trajectory but that isn't really an accuracy issue it's resistance to external forces. So it kinda is that simple until you complicate it by adding in environmental factors and that pesky gravity factor.
 
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