Bought my first AR - NEA in 7.62x39

It means lets keep bashing on NEA even after they fixed the issue. And when you report back that they will of course not be paying for lpi testing on a whole gd rifle or give you a brand new rifle lets bash some more...
 
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mg4201 said:
Look at you with the veiled threats. Is this Jeff or Dave?
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Threat? Not even close. I've just paid attention to the history between Beeson and NEA. He himself indicated he got his pee pee slapped a few years back. I guess my comment was more around, anyone with common sense, who has been served in the past would likely refrain from commenting further on NEA threads for fear of round 2 or worse. Especially since he is a competing manufacturer with incentive to obtain marketshare.

I'm just an enthusiast like the rest. No bone in this fight. I did purchase an early NEA and luckily it has been good to me. I'm more into the CC offerings at the moment and am looking forward to the release of the MRR.
 
I'll try to articulate this as clearly as possible so no one will reply with some kind of comment like I'm an apologist at best.

Have a look at page 9, 4 of 10 replies are about how bad NEA is, no additional value beyond clutter that detracts from the discussion. Those accused of being Shills, etc. are in most cases just asking for an honest appraisal of the current crop. Instead the discussion is constantly being drown out from machinists to logistics experts adding zero value to the discussion. I also accept my part in this frequently doesn't add much to the discussion, in the end though, I'm trying to filter out the guys who insert the same tired argument or some unknown that drops an, "I had an NEA it/they/we sucked", with no further comment.

One part failing is just that, now if Barrel Extensions start popping, what does that tell us? As an industry insider has already pointed out batches of parts can be made too hard, I'd assume that a batch would be collectively too hard/soft/etc., if I'm not mistaken the parts are made in batches not one at a time. Also as far as I can tell NEA uses common steels and alloys and hasn't changed the design of any components so radically as to make them unreliable. The problems all appear to be related to QC, and Inventory Control. I won't even try to document what appears to be incorrect time lines as I'd need to make some kind of spread sheet to keep track of who said what and when (availability of Gen-1 to Gen-2, was there even a Gen-1 7.62X39?).

The longer I follow the NEA saga the more inclined I am to believe it's impossible to judge just how many defects they have and of what nature. I've had plenty of defective items in my life. All by degrees, regarding rifles, the only one I can say was pretty close to perfect was a S&W M&P-15. Every other single rifle I purchased new had some kind of defect, from mildly annoying to I'm not even going to try to shoot it. All but the one I wouldn't even try to shoot turned out to be very good at worst when it came to its purpose, holes in paper. NEA problems can be sorted into two groups, defects related to a batch of known defective parts, and others. I would like to know what return/repair rate would they have if you removed the stuff related to failure of [known bad] batches.

Glad you got your rifle back by the way. I'd be a little wary but I'm pretty sure the parts they didn't replace will be ok judging by the lack of overall damage. The carrier is the part I would have liked replaced as well. How did the charging handle give you a kiss? Part of why my initial vote was leaning to pressure, but I'd assume a little torque on the carrier could bring it along for the ride.
 
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redshooter said:
I'll try to articulate this as clearly as possible so no one will reply with some kind of comment like I'm an apologist at best.

Have a look at page 9, 4 of 10 replies are about how bad NEA is, no additional value beyond clutter that detracts from the discussion. Those accused of being Shills, etc. are in most cases just asking for an honest appraisal of the current crop. Instead the discussion is constantly being drown out by experts from machinists to logistics experts adding zero value to the discussion. I also accept my part in this frequently doesn't add much to the discussion, in the end though, I'm trying to filter out the guys who insert the same tired argument or some unknown that drops an, "I had an NEA it/they/we sucked", with no further comment.

One part failing is just that, now if Barrel Extensions start popping, what does that tell us? As an industry insider has already pointed out batches of parts can be made too hard, I'd assume that a batch would be collectively too hard/soft/etc., if I'm not mistaken the parts are made in batches not one at a time. Also as far as I can tell NEA uses common steels and alloys and hasn't changed the design of any components so radically as to make them unreliable. The problems all appear to be related to QC, and Inventory Control. I won't even try to document what appears to be incorrect time lines as I'd need to make some kind of spread sheet to keep track of who said what and when (availability of Gen-1 to Gen-2, was there even a Gen-1 7.62X39?).

The longer I follow the NEA saga the more inclined I am to believe it's impossible to judge just how many defects they have and of what nature. I've had plenty of defective items in my life. All by degrees, regarding rifles, the only one I can say was pretty close to perfect was a S&W M&P-15. Every other single rifle I purchased new had some kind of defect, from mildly annoying to I'm not even going to try to shoot it. All but the one I wouldn't even try to shoot turned out to be very good at worst when it came to its purpose, holes in paper. NEA problems can be sorted into two groups, defects related to a batch of known defective parts, and others. I would like to know what return/repair rate would they have if you removed the stuff related to failure of batches.
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Great post. Unfortunately with the "regulars" on this forum we'll never really get unbiased opinions.
 
Redshooter- so if they know this batch of battel extensions were over hardened (they wont have hardened one at a time), when do you suppose they will issue a recall? Seeing as someone could get hurt..........or do they just cross their fingers and hope for the best?
 
One bad part doesn't = dozens of defective rifles, there are people involved at some point, so mixing a bad part in with a good batch isn't inconceivable. Beyond that I can't comment as I have never been involved directly in the manufacture of the individual parts, or the assembly of rifles.
 
redshooter said:
One bad part doesn't = dozens of defective rifles, there are people involved at some point, so mixing a bad part in with a good batch isn't inconceivable.
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I think MALICE has a good point. While having one bad part in a good batch isn't impossible, it's highly unlikely in any modern production and assembly process. Even if this is the case, it would speak poorly about NEA's manufacturing control and QC. In heat treating, each batch should have a tightly controlled heat-treating process and a statistically significant sample from the batch, post-treatment should be Rockwell tested. This isn't rocket science.

If a batch is bad, the entire batch would normally be scrapped. If not, the entire batch would go to the finishing and assembly process which would mean that there are more defective rifles out there.
 
Its astounding to me that after all the issues/failures/ and with this example dangerous products NEA has put out, that they haven't been relegated to the history books as an anecdotal topic of conversation of a failed company.

But by all means… keep buying their pipe bombs.
 
My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.' Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake, and he gave it up immediately, quit smoking cold turkey. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was very sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke... Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through. I agreed. At 26, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a good sense of regret for never trying it after all these years, because all the NEA supporters in this thread gave me cancer anyways.

I'm the first guy to forgive and forget when companies have a screw up, it happens to everyone... but I have owned NEA products in the past that worked, and I have had some that were complete safety hazards due to poor manufacturing. Normally I'd just accept this as the teething stage of a new company, but not anymore. NEA has had 8 years to work out the flaws in their manufacturing process, but yet still I read stories like this about catastrophic failures of product, and people still come around to say that it was just "a bad batch" or "bad luck". It honestly makes me shake my head.

To each their own I suppose, but buyer beware, and thank goodness nobody was hurt.

 
TheWhole9Yards said:
I have no clue what any of that testing means
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LPI is liquid penetrant inspection, it finds cracks porosity or voids in a surface, usually metal. MPI is magnetic particle inspection it finds the same things as LPI as well as fatigue and other issues in metal. The short answer is that both processes find flaws or voids that can cause failure of parts.
 
Kevin M. said:
My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.' Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake, and he gave it up immediately, quit smoking cold turkey. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was very sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke... Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through. I agreed. At 26, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a good sense of regret for never trying it after all these years, because all the NEA supporters in this thread gave me cancer anyways.

I'm the first guy to forgive and forget when companies have a screw up, it happens to everyone... but I have owned NEA products in the past that worked, and I have had some that were complete safety hazards due to poor manufacturing. Normally I'd just accept this as the teething stage of a new company, but not anymore. NEA has had 8 years to work out the flaws in their manufacturing process, but yet still I read stories like this about catastrophic failures of product, and people still come around to say that it was just "a bad batch" or "bad luck". It honestly makes me shake my head.

To each their own I suppose, but buyer beware, and thank goodness nobody was hurt.
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It is simply a matter of time until someone is injured by the failure of an NEA rifle. You can only role the dice so many times before the math catches up with you and someone gets their face blown off, or loses a hand, eye or fingers.
 
redshooter said:
I'll try to articulate this as clearly as possible so no one will reply with some kind of comment like I'm an apologist at best.

Have a look at page 9, 4 of 10 replies are about how bad NEA is, no additional value beyond clutter that detracts from the discussion. Those accused of being Shills, etc. are in most cases just asking for an honest appraisal of the current crop. Instead the discussion is constantly being drown out from machinists to logistics experts adding zero value to the discussion. I also accept my part in this frequently doesn't add much to the discussion, in the end though, I'm trying to filter out the guys who insert the same tired argument or some unknown that drops an, "I had an NEA it/they/we sucked", with no further comment.

One part failing is just that, now if Barrel Extensions start popping, what does that tell us? As an industry insider has already pointed out batches of parts can be made too hard, I'd assume that a batch would be collectively too hard/soft/etc., if I'm not mistaken the parts are made in batches not one at a time. Also as far as I can tell NEA uses common steels and alloys and hasn't changed the design of any components so radically as to make them unreliable. The problems all appear to be related to QC, and Inventory Control. I won't even try to document what appears to be incorrect time lines as I'd need to make some kind of spread sheet to keep track of who said what and when (availability of Gen-1 to Gen-2, was there even a Gen-1 7.62X39?).

The longer I follow the NEA saga the more inclined I am to believe it's impossible to judge just how many defects they have and of what nature. I've had plenty of defective items in my life. All by degrees, regarding rifles, the only one I can say was pretty close to perfect was a S&W M&P-15. Every other single rifle I purchased new had some kind of defect, from mildly annoying to I'm not even going to try to shoot it. All but the one I wouldn't even try to shoot turned out to be very good at worst when it came to its purpose, holes in paper. NEA problems can be sorted into two groups, defects related to a batch of known defective parts, and others. I would like to know what return/repair rate would they have if you removed the stuff related to failure of [known bad] batches.

Glad you got your rifle back by the way. I'd be a little wary but I'm pretty sure the parts they didn't replace will be ok judging by the lack of overall damage. The carrier is the part I would have liked replaced as well. How did the charging handle give you a kiss? Part of why my initial vote was leaning to pressure, but I'd assume a little torque on the carrier could bring it along for the ride.
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when a company run by responsible people gets a failure like this, they recall every item made with suspect parts. I have participated in product recalls of parts made with material that was mis represented by the supplier. We recalled every part that was made with that batch of material and destroyed all of it except for samples that were sent for testing and one piece that was kept to use as a training tool to demonstrate the consequences of bad material. When you left the customer find your issues for you instead of recalling the product, you can find it very hard to get customers to trust you in the future, providing that you still have a company that is.
 
mg4201 said:
when a company run by responsible people gets a failure like this, they recall every item made with suspect parts. I have participated in product recalls of parts made with material that was mis represented by the supplier. We recalled every part that was made with that batch of material and destroyed all of it except for samples that were sent for testing and one piece that was kept to use as a training tool to demonstrate the consequences of bad material. When you left the customer find your issues for you instead of recalling the product, you can find it very hard to get customers to trust you in the future, providing that you still have a company that is.
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No kidding? We already know that in the past they had a real problem with QC/Inventory Control. I don't give a crap what you do in your shop, I give a crap what NEA does going forward. If this part failure is the leading edge of a defective batch we'll know soon enough won't we? As for recalls, for all we know some clown dropped a part under a machine and grabbed one from the defective batch to replace it, none required, or maybe it's ongoing. I realize your likely a young fella, and you may find that hard to believe of co-workers, but there's plenty of lazy sacks of crap that would do that very thing...in any shop, if the place you work is big enough it'll happen there too one day...unless there's a supervisor for each worker.

It's too bad you didn't study stats to go along with your manufacturing expertise (a little psychology too). If you did you'd realize that there is a difference in how you perceive it and how it really is, especially when it come to the circus that always forms around an NEA thread. There is a group here who do nothing but create a negative vibe in every NEA thread, making it difficult to sort through the facts...think of it as unintentional smoke and mirrors (prob some intentional too). I want real numbers...and until then I'd ask the guys who have nothing to add to please shut their cake holes. I suspect what you'd find is if you remove the known batch related failures, that other defects are in line with other manufactures.

I've wasted too much time trying to reason with...what, anti-fanboys? The best part is I have no skin in this game. I'm going to do my best to ignore NEA threads going forward.
 
redshooter said:
...some clown...grabbed one from the defective batch
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What responsible manufacturer would leave known defective parts lying around accessible to assembly workers?

redshooter said:
...I realize your likely a young fella, and you may find that hard to believe of co-workers ...It's too bad you didn't study stats to go along with your manufacturing expertise
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Shame that these thread's go downhill so fast. I think it's eminently reasonable to have a discussion regarding the cause and implications of a potentially catastrophic gun failure, at a minimum to help the community from having a disastrous experience.

Brands are precious and delicate things, especially in markets with small, passionate communities. This is even more important when there are high severity risks associated with the products being sold. Regardless of whether defect statistics are in-line with other manufacturers, NEA would be prudent to do everything in its power to defend its brand and ensure that the OP and its other customers do not walk away with a negative experience. Replacing the entire rifle and tracking down any potentially defective rifles would be cheap insurance. Whoever is managing NEA or the division that makes these guns is being woefully neglectful.
 
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redshooter said:
... I suspect what you'd find is if you remove the known batch related failures, that other defects are in line with other manufacturers...
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Sure, let's just disqualify all the guns and parts that have issues, which seems to be a very high percentage of what the problems have been.

That doesn't skew the results at all...:confused:
 
Got the upper in the mail today. Looks like they replaced the bolt with the updated unit mentioned earlier in this thread. The wear on the parts tells me they did more testing than they did in original production, makes me feel more comfortable with the repair and gives me some confidence in shooting it.

I'll be installing a wolf xp hammer spring tomorrow to ensure minimal light strikes, and have a range report saturday evening. Fingers crossed!

 
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