BP shotgun reloading questions

[Evanguy]

i plan to load some black powder shells, i know with smokeless the primer, hull and wad need to be what the recipe calls for and small changes can make big differences.

the guns in question are a pre smokeless 16g SxS under lever and a early H&R model 1915 takedown in 410

i have ffg real black power and also some ffg H777

it would be nice to use H777 but i have zero issue using real black power.

i was thinking of using the lee scoops to measure the power and shot.




can i use any primer / hull / wad / shot size combination as long as i keep the loads square by volume?

the 410 takes around 30-40gr of BP and then use the same size scoop for any shot size?

and the 16g takes around 60-70gr BP and then the same scoop of any size shot?

between the powder and shot can i just use a circle of cardboard? and its also fine to not use a shot cup?

 

[infidel29]

1) If I remember correctly, the black powder reloading handbook I have says not to use certain types of plastic or any ferrous material to scoop the black powder because it can create static charge and this the potential for a spark = kaboom. So I use a brass spoon and measure the same amount of volume for powder and shot.

1A) I use fiber wads, not plastic because it melts and leaves residue inside the barrels which is a pain to scrape off. Cardboard or cotton patches works too.

2) Use 2f or 3f powder. Not 4f, if I understand it correctly it's too high pressure due to too fine a grain because it burns faster (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong?). Also reduce the volume by 10% if using substitute black powder instead of the real thing.

3) Not all 209 primers are the same dimension surprisingly, 209a are slightly different as well.

 

[tiriaq]

Once you have established the volumes of powder and shot, you can calculate the thickness of the wad column, allowing for enough case for the crimp. I make wadcutters as needed, and cut wads from card and cork. Cork wads are placed n a zip lock bag with some Crisco and microwaved to produce lubed wads.
Wadcutters are turned from steel tube, bored to produce the desired diameter wads, sharpened and brazed to a shank which can be mounted in the drill press. The side of the tube is cut away so wads can be poked out.
10ga made this way.

 

[jcpal]

Once you have established the volumes of powder and shot, you can calculate the thickness of the wad column, allowing for enough case for the crimp. I make wadcutters as needed, and cut wads from card and cork. Cork wads are placed n a zip lock bag with some Crisco and microwaved to produce lubed wads.
Wadcutters are turned from steel tube, bored to produce the desired diameter wads, sharpened and brazed to a shank which can be mounted in the drill press. The side of the tube is cut away so wads can be poked out.
10ga made this way.
View attachment 954387

Bingo chips work good for 12g and are cheap and transparent

 

[9.3 Hunter]

I learned alot from CGN member: wlj
on BP shell loading ... helped me out with info on loading up 12g + 20g shells ...

I'm using a Lee Handloader, using mostly cardboard hulls, I have a few hundred, but also plastic hulks as well, not hard to do and there are several excellent videos on You Tube going thru the process.

Have fun with it!

 

[Evanguy]

Thanks for the replies so far. Learning lots.

So I just checked and I have 209a primers. I can push 75% of them in with a very ferm push with my thumb. About 25% takes a tap with my shotgun primers seater (similar method to the lee loader)

 

[tiriaq]

I learned alot from CGN member: wlj
on BP shell loading ... helped me out with info on loading up 12g + 20g shells ...

I'm using a Lee Handloader, using mostly cardboard hulls, I have a few hundred, but also plastic hulks as well, not hard to do and there are several excellent videos on You Tube going thru the process.

Have fun with it!

It is remarkable how fast cardboard hulls burn through using black.

 

[iron cat]

Black powder is not hard to ignite with a standard primer in fact my MAGTEC brass uses a large pistol printer .
For my vintage 16 gauge Lefachaux under lever I use 65 grains of FFG , and 3/4 to 7/8 oz of shot with a wad stack that comes close to the top .
This combination flattens birds over a pointer
Cat

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Fibre wads and overshot cards can be purchased from Track of The Wolf.

If using modern plastic hulls, throw them in a bucket of slightly soapy water to stop the BP residue from corroding the inside of the hull.

 

[iron cat]

Fibre wads and overshot cards can be purchased from Track of The Wolf.

If using modern plastic hulls, throw them in a bucket of slightly soapy water to stop the BP residue from corroding the inside of the hull.

Whenever I load plastic hulls with black powder it's a one and done thing, I find the case mouths are too scorched to crimp well afterwards.
Brass and BOP are the way to go for me.
Cat

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Nice gun

 

[iron cat]

Nice gun

Thanks! The box lock is an 1899 Westley Richards drawn steel barrel and the right pic with the rooster is my prized possession and main bird gun- an 1878 Westely Richards Damascus .
Cat

 

[Licensed to kill]

Whenever I load plastic hulls with black powder it's a one and done thing, I find the case mouths are too scorched to crimp well afterwards.
Brass and BOP are the way to go for me.
Cat

Yup, BP and plastic hulls is a “one and fine” proposition. Cut off the crimp (making them 2 1/2” hill, load equal parts (by volume) of powder and shot, over powder and over shot wads can be cut from milk cartons and cushion wads are readily available and roll crimp them. Once fired 12ga hulls can be had for free from any trap range by the thousands so no cost ( and no point in trying to get a second BP load from them). If you use a good tight fitting over powder wad, I don’t see why you could not use regular plastic shot cup wads. Over powder wad prevents the plastic wad from melting snd contaminating the barrel.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Thanks! The box lock is an 1899 Westley Richards drawn steel barrel and the right pic with the rooster is my prized possession and main bird gun- an 1878 Westely Richards Damascus .
Cat

I have a couple of underlever, exposed hammer, Damascus barrelled 12ga's that date from the mid 1870's London. One came from a guy nobody has ever hear of and the other was a reasonably well known man who also built barrels for Greener. They are both interesting guns but I can't seem to hit sh!t with them.

 

[iron cat]

I have a couple of underlever, exposed hammer, Damascus barrelled 12ga's that date from the mid 1870's London. One came from a guy nobody has ever hear of and the other was a reasonably well known man who also built barrels for Greener. They are both interesting guns but I can't seem to hit sh!t with them.

Underlevers tend to be very light .
This one belonged to my Grandfather, a friend tightened up the action for me.
It kills birds very well .
Cat

 

[tiriaq]

If buying wads, remember that paper and plastic hulls use very different diameter wads. I suspect brass and plastic might be able to use the same wads, both having thin walls. Brass cases will have to be washed after use to stop corrosion.

 

[iron cat]

If buying wads, remember that paper and plastic hulls use very different diameter wads. I suspect brass and plastic might be able to use the same wads, both having thin walls. Brass cases will have to be washed after use to stop corrosion.

Rocky Mountain Cartridge company turned brass hulls use the same wads as modern straight walled plastic hulls do, but drawn brass like the Mag Tec hulls use a wad the next size larger.
A 12 gauge Mag Tech for instance will use 10 gauge wads.
I always use Fibre wads BTW when using black powder.
I have not found a single modern plastic shot gun wad that does not burn with black powder and they consequently leave a very big mess in the bore of a shotgun! When cleaning , I often found wad build up in big sheaths of plastic coming out of the barrels.
I have stuck to use only fibre wads in my BP shotguns since 1980.
Cat

 

[tiriaq]

I have used cardboard, felt, fibre and cork, depending on what I have on hand, in both muzzleloading shotguns and cartridges. Having a lathe, I make my own appropriately sized wadcutters.

 

[iron cat]

I have used cardboard, felt, fibre and cork, depending on what I have on hand, in both muzzleloading shotguns and cartridges. Having a lathe, I make my own appropriately sized wadcutters.

I use wasp nest in my muzzle loading shotguns these days , makes a great wadding, although I have not chronigraphed the loads- it makes birds hit the ground however so I never worried too much about it
Cat

 

[tiriaq]

A friend gave me a large nest. It does work well, and doesn't seem to leave smoldering debris like paper can.