Read the first post again, that has nothing to do with why this thread was created.
We are being scolded and told to show respect for others opinions, not post what brand we love or hate.
Brand Loyalty, love/hate...etc
- Thread starter greentips
- Start date
Read the first post again, that has nothing to do with why this thread was created.
We are being scolded and told to show respect for others opinions, not post what brand we love or hate.
My first AR-15 was a Norinco.
I replaced the buttstock, grip, and trigger guard for looks.
I replaced the mags with Magpul for reliability.
I installed a YHM freefloat handguard to improve accuracy.
What I ended up with is a rifle that doesn't reliably lock back on the last round no matter what I try.
I went as far as replacing the mag catch with a Colt and still no luck.
I replaced every spring in the rifle with Wolfe and still no difference.
Light loads, heavy loads, it doesn't make a difference.
I will try different buffers and that will be it.
If it won't lock back reliably I will put it on the EE with full disclosure and let another Norinco lover give it a go.
With all the money I spent on it I could have been most of the way to a Daniel Defense or some other quality AR.
The problem existed from new and not because I made changes to the rifle.
I have since purchased a Stag 3G and have completed my first build with all Noveske parts and neither of those 2 guns has had a single failure with the exact same ammo.
I then went out and bought a Springfield Armory M1A National Match and a Norinco M305 to play around with.
The Norinco fires 100% but has an over indexed barrel, crappy sights and a host of other minor problems all of which were taken care of (minus the barrel indexing issue) at Hungry's last clinic.
All that to say Norinco quality is hit and miss so all those who claim a Norinco is just as good as other brands are not 100% up front and may be doing a disservice to people who may actually appreciate quality.
All that to say I love my Springfields, Noveske, Stag, HKs, Savages but I can't say the same for all of my Norincos.
I replaced the buttstock, grip, and trigger guard for looks.
I replaced the mags with Magpul for reliability.
I installed a YHM freefloat handguard to improve accuracy.
What I ended up with is a rifle that doesn't reliably lock back on the last round no matter what I try.
I went as far as replacing the mag catch with a Colt and still no luck.
I replaced every spring in the rifle with Wolfe and still no difference.
Light loads, heavy loads, it doesn't make a difference.
I will try different buffers and that will be it.
If it won't lock back reliably I will put it on the EE with full disclosure and let another Norinco lover give it a go.
With all the money I spent on it I could have been most of the way to a Daniel Defense or some other quality AR.
The problem existed from new and not because I made changes to the rifle.
I have since purchased a Stag 3G and have completed my first build with all Noveske parts and neither of those 2 guns has had a single failure with the exact same ammo.
I then went out and bought a Springfield Armory M1A National Match and a Norinco M305 to play around with.
The Norinco fires 100% but has an over indexed barrel, crappy sights and a host of other minor problems all of which were taken care of (minus the barrel indexing issue) at Hungry's last clinic.
All that to say Norinco quality is hit and miss so all those who claim a Norinco is just as good as other brands are not 100% up front and may be doing a disservice to people who may actually appreciate quality.
All that to say I love my Springfields, Noveske, Stag, HKs, Savages but I can't say the same for all of my Norincos.
One thread in the dealer forum, that got locked after a dozen posts of how much NEA sucks and makes garbage and why did I buy that crap. Zero posts in any discussion forum about the issue, except the one showing my bolt blown up, then a post linking to SFRC's $120 NEA upper sale for the OP which was I thought was nice, and I pointed out Rainer upper/lower was the same price he would be into the NEA for but is much better quaility. Member on CGN since there were 100 member but now I'm a troll because
Should I have started a thread on my blown up bolt in black rifles? Or would that have been trolling too? I posted in the dealer forum cuz that's where I bought it. I kept quiet about it because I was promised a new complete bolt carrier assembly. But after 2 weeks with no communication and nothing showing up im getting a little pissed with this ####.
I've had a few guns over the years - The first Norinco I owned was a type 56. I thought it was good build quality and ran like a top, but like lots of stuff, I didn't own a sampling of other manufacturer's offerings in that design. I wouldn't purport to say the 56 was 'the best gun ever' based on my limited knowledge of that particular subject. It seems that lots on this site have no problem adding their voice and opinion based little more than that one sample they own and what their internet research gives them unfortunately.
Over the years I've been fortunate enough to not only be able to afford more expensive guns, but be able to use them in a variety of settings that include a working environment, training and competition.
Purchasing that expensive AI is one thing, getting out and gaining experience with it is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
I still own Norinco products along with others so I try to keep my opinions and comments balanced and always based on personal knowledge of discussed products. I can understand why it is tough to keep that balance though when passions run deep, and opinions (even the ones based on CoD...) are so varied.
Over the years I've been fortunate enough to not only be able to afford more expensive guns, but be able to use them in a variety of settings that include a working environment, training and competition.
Purchasing that expensive AI is one thing, getting out and gaining experience with it is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
I still own Norinco products along with others so I try to keep my opinions and comments balanced and always based on personal knowledge of discussed products. I can understand why it is tough to keep that balance though when passions run deep, and opinions (even the ones based on CoD...) are so varied.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
As it was said before, the truth hurts. Though with some members, their approach to telling the truth flat out sucks.
This is an interesting topic, as forum housekeeping threads go, as it gets to the root of every successful forum; signal to noise ratio.
I would say the ratio has become a solid 8/10 on this site as of late. Which kinda blows because i generally like this forum and it's contributors very much. It must be tough to run a forum as a business and try to keep all the scammers, trolls and shameless self promoters in line, and still offer value and content to the membership and site supporters.
Signal to noise ratio here has moved a lot of the solid CME's and contributors to other forums where they don't have to wade through so many novice posts. It's a problem for the mods for sure, but it's probably part of the life cycle of any successful forum.
Everyone is here because we are all passionate about guns in general, some are more passionate about certain brands or systems. That is cool.
The central idea here is that, for example, if people are talking how much they like ( and proud of ) their new purchases, it is pretty rude to jump in and say "your rifle(brand) sucks", or "you should have bought this other because your new toy sucks". Think of this, you brought a brand new AR15 to the range, the first thing your range buddies did was implying you were stupid and ridiculing you for not buying a different brand. I am pretty sure this is not how anyone would want to start the day.
Of course, if people are asking for opinions, like "is brand X any good" or "what should I choose", then by all means spill your guts and support it with facts and good arguments. For example, if you don't like Nornico, fine - why? Don't just say it is "Chinese crap". That is just hate without reason. In fact, people most likely ignore opinions like that.
Just saying.
The central idea here is that, for example, if people are talking how much they like ( and proud of ) their new purchases, it is pretty rude to jump in and say "your rifle(brand) sucks", or "you should have bought this other because your new toy sucks". Think of this, you brought a brand new AR15 to the range, the first thing your range buddies did was implying you were stupid and ridiculing you for not buying a different brand. I am pretty sure this is not how anyone would want to start the day.
Of course, if people are asking for opinions, like "is brand X any good" or "what should I choose", then by all means spill your guts and support it with facts and good arguments. For example, if you don't like Nornico, fine - why? Don't just say it is "Chinese crap". That is just hate without reason. In fact, people most likely ignore opinions like that.
Just saying.
Well said.
- Location
- Pile of Bones, SK
So now wouldn't be a good time to start a new definitive tier thread? 
Let me roll my eyes at this one more time...
I think that sometimes people don't type the way they speak, and sometimes they do. I mean, If I say simply, "Buying brand Blue was stupid." It could be said with a flat, gruff, rude, ignorant, demeaning face and voice. It could also be said with a jovial, light-hearted, sly, smiling face and voice. Without the view of a person, without knowing a person and without knowing what a person means it can be hard to know how they were saying something: and thus the reader either takes it right or takes it wrong, and then the fan gets brown.
It is hard too because there are lots of people trying or wanting to post stuff, but when the above happens they bail. If they found the one and only single working flawless [pick a brand, I will pick my own rarity] Sig Mosquito .22LR handgun like I did, they tend to STFU because of the number of poor people (I do feel sorry for you, but not for my fortune) who either got a lemon or foolishly screwed it up... and that statement made another brown fan I bet.
Then you get people who want to say that Norincos are [again, pick your own percentages, I will use my opinion] an 80% "good buy", a 18% "needs tinkering" and a 2% "you just got raped" type of purchase: but even making that statement to let people know your Norinco opinion gets the neanderthal hair raised on people's backs... and toes... and there's another brown fan.
It doesn't even stop at brand Blue. It also extends to calibre. I don't personally think you need a .30-378 Weatherby Magnum to shoot deer, but why would I bother debating your choice? I also think that .30-06 is fine, but not the "God" calibre like some say. It is much like a 50BMG or 338 Lapua: your choice; but I can hardly not get trigger flinch when I pull the trigger and the reload costs me $1.92... and I am shooting 40 rounds that day. I just figure that using facts and reasoning is better, so if you want to degrade it to arguing about abstract and opinionated choice your even more stupid than your DNA reveals. Sorry, another brown fan.
Then there's the "Blah Defense" thread. Gawd. I would love to do "an unlimited number of posts returned, since CGN started" search of CGN for the exact term "Bear Defense". The number must be mind blowing: I mean, I can search now over the last year and fill 6 pages of posts. Worst thing is: it boils down to a 2 week search default, a hot topic for new people to the site and a lot of opinions that don't mean jack. In the end, in the slim possibility of having to actually defend against a bear (where you are not a geologist or someone specifically working in bear country) you would be better to be highly trained with an SKS than no training with brand Blue 12ga shotgun (but still applies to said Geologist and so on). Brown fan count is up again.
Then there's the "Accessory" thread. You know the one: where someone wants to put brand Blue stuff on their AK, AR or A-hole. It either degrades to "don't put crap on it" or "don't put that crap on it". If dude or dudette wants to spend the money and likes it: you can give an opinion and support it, but you don't actually have a choice in the matter. Brown fan incoming.
Don't even get me started on range reports. Sometimes a simple report gets a lot of thumbs up, and sometimes they get torn apart for not having recorded th exact 1/10th of a second of each shot, records of the barrel temperature before every shot, 20 pictures, targets posted, day and time recorded, video of the shooting, video of the weather off of the expensive Kestral, and on & on. I think that if someone takes the time to make any report you look at the poster doing the report, and add that to the stack of reports. Don't get mad when they make a report and don't do it your way: your way isn't the only way. What's the brown fan count now?
In the end, no matter how much I have complained in two posts: I actually have a sense of humor about it. I have been using my jovial, light-hearted, sly, smiling face and voice the whole time.
It's "your outhouse", so I am told, so to speak, all colloquially speaking and stuff. Good Luck sir Greentips: you will have many brown fans to clean, and I do not envy you for it. Somehow, though, I will gather up my nutz and say I blame you for one thing: you need to change the default search function to "A Year Ago" so we can stop the "I searched but I didn't find..." topic that is replied with "I searched and found 9 topics on it in the last two months, all over 2 weeks old...".
Just saying.
Thanks for letting me use this thread to vent the 2.5% of CGN I truly despise and hate. Now, off to "roll my eyes towards" the 97.5% I love....
I think that sometimes people don't type the way they speak, and sometimes they do. I mean, If I say simply, "Buying brand Blue was stupid." It could be said with a flat, gruff, rude, ignorant, demeaning face and voice. It could also be said with a jovial, light-hearted, sly, smiling face and voice. Without the view of a person, without knowing a person and without knowing what a person means it can be hard to know how they were saying something: and thus the reader either takes it right or takes it wrong, and then the fan gets brown.
It is hard too because there are lots of people trying or wanting to post stuff, but when the above happens they bail. If they found the one and only single working flawless [pick a brand, I will pick my own rarity] Sig Mosquito .22LR handgun like I did, they tend to STFU because of the number of poor people (I do feel sorry for you, but not for my fortune) who either got a lemon or foolishly screwed it up... and that statement made another brown fan I bet.
Then you get people who want to say that Norincos are [again, pick your own percentages, I will use my opinion] an 80% "good buy", a 18% "needs tinkering" and a 2% "you just got raped" type of purchase: but even making that statement to let people know your Norinco opinion gets the neanderthal hair raised on people's backs... and toes... and there's another brown fan.
It doesn't even stop at brand Blue. It also extends to calibre. I don't personally think you need a .30-378 Weatherby Magnum to shoot deer, but why would I bother debating your choice? I also think that .30-06 is fine, but not the "God" calibre like some say. It is much like a 50BMG or 338 Lapua: your choice; but I can hardly not get trigger flinch when I pull the trigger and the reload costs me $1.92... and I am shooting 40 rounds that day. I just figure that using facts and reasoning is better, so if you want to degrade it to arguing about abstract and opinionated choice your even more stupid than your DNA reveals. Sorry, another brown fan.
Then there's the "Blah Defense" thread. Gawd. I would love to do "an unlimited number of posts returned, since CGN started" search of CGN for the exact term "Bear Defense". The number must be mind blowing: I mean, I can search now over the last year and fill 6 pages of posts. Worst thing is: it boils down to a 2 week search default, a hot topic for new people to the site and a lot of opinions that don't mean jack. In the end, in the slim possibility of having to actually defend against a bear (where you are not a geologist or someone specifically working in bear country) you would be better to be highly trained with an SKS than no training with brand Blue 12ga shotgun (but still applies to said Geologist and so on). Brown fan count is up again.
Then there's the "Accessory" thread. You know the one: where someone wants to put brand Blue stuff on their AK, AR or A-hole. It either degrades to "don't put crap on it" or "don't put that crap on it". If dude or dudette wants to spend the money and likes it: you can give an opinion and support it, but you don't actually have a choice in the matter. Brown fan incoming.
Don't even get me started on range reports. Sometimes a simple report gets a lot of thumbs up, and sometimes they get torn apart for not having recorded th exact 1/10th of a second of each shot, records of the barrel temperature before every shot, 20 pictures, targets posted, day and time recorded, video of the shooting, video of the weather off of the expensive Kestral, and on & on. I think that if someone takes the time to make any report you look at the poster doing the report, and add that to the stack of reports. Don't get mad when they make a report and don't do it your way: your way isn't the only way. What's the brown fan count now?
In the end, no matter how much I have complained in two posts: I actually have a sense of humor about it. I have been using my jovial, light-hearted, sly, smiling face and voice the whole time.
It's "your outhouse", so I am told, so to speak, all colloquially speaking and stuff. Good Luck sir Greentips: you will have many brown fans to clean, and I do not envy you for it. Somehow, though, I will gather up my nutz and say I blame you for one thing: you need to change the default search function to "A Year Ago" so we can stop the "I searched but I didn't find..." topic that is replied with "I searched and found 9 topics on it in the last two months, all over 2 weeks old...".
Just saying.
Thanks for letting me use this thread to vent the 2.5% of CGN I truly despise and hate. Now, off to "roll my eyes towards" the 97.5% I love....
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
There is this one company.
They make decent products, but there are way to many people running around quoting brochures and trying to justify their prices.
They make decent products, but there are way to many people running around quoting brochures and trying to justify their prices.
Throttle_monkey1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If you think the gun world has fanboys and haters, the motorcycle world is worse. Everyone is proud of what they own, and wants validation of their choice in gun/bike/tools.
As with every mechanical device made by man, there is chance for failure and there will be lemons from every batch. Good QC and QA will minimize this. I've owned cheap guns, I've owned expensive guns. The only guns I've owned that gave me zero issues, not even one FTE,FTF, stovepipe, double feed etc were an old beater norinco 45 I had, a tavor I owned, a Swiss arms I had and a beater 858 I had.
All the other guns I've owned or still own have had minor to extensive issues and the price range has been from a 200$ SKS to $3000 + high end semis. Some designs are better than others, and some companies offer a much more refined and quality version of the same rifle (noveske vs norc CQA).
The black rifle forum on CGN is a gun snob forum. I have met a #### ton of people out shooting and over 95% of the time CGN is mentioned it elicits a negative response. Most of the time it's newer shooters who don't feel welcome and don't want to be part of the shooting community after spending a short time here.
As with every mechanical device made by man, there is chance for failure and there will be lemons from every batch. Good QC and QA will minimize this. I've owned cheap guns, I've owned expensive guns. The only guns I've owned that gave me zero issues, not even one FTE,FTF, stovepipe, double feed etc were an old beater norinco 45 I had, a tavor I owned, a Swiss arms I had and a beater 858 I had.
All the other guns I've owned or still own have had minor to extensive issues and the price range has been from a 200$ SKS to $3000 + high end semis. Some designs are better than others, and some companies offer a much more refined and quality version of the same rifle (noveske vs norc CQA).
The black rifle forum on CGN is a gun snob forum. I have met a #### ton of people out shooting and over 95% of the time CGN is mentioned it elicits a negative response. Most of the time it's newer shooters who don't feel welcome and don't want to be part of the shooting community after spending a short time here.
I did, I even bought one, I will not buy another...
Would it not make sense to have a sub-forum or pinned thread for brand reviews (I think this is needed in the Black Rifle section for sure), i.e; Norinco, DD, Noveske, etc.? This way there is a more permanent database of information that can be added to by each new purchaser/owner giving their thoughts on that particular brand/make.
I find that the reviews on this site that you can find or brands and makes are generally positive, yet I have seen negative ones but they usually get deleted because people with blind love for that brand/make can't help themselves and degrade the post to a lock, edit and sometimes even an entire delete.
For a section like that to work, it has to show both sides.
Well ya, obviously.
