Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I also heard a rumour that those special troops, that are sometimes assigned to carry out, close personal protection duties, carry whatever they please.
Browning Hi-Power - SA only service pistol?
- Thread starter degreeszero
- Start date
Anti capture device. Depending on your job, sometimes a pistol is the only efficient way to remain armed at work without having a cumbersome rifle getting caught on everything.
Mil Pol also have them.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Pistols are not a status thing, IMHO they are merely another tool in the tool-chest.
When you don't know who's really friendly & not friendly, it's more personal security.
The big difference is the extra training time required to become proficient in it's use.
When you don't know who's really friendly & not friendly, it's more personal security.
The big difference is the extra training time required to become proficient in it's use.
DrakeriderCa
CGN Regular
Yep, this. For those saying they're a status thing, you should know that a few soldiers have defended themselves with a pistol after having their primary blown away from them in an IED strike.
Afghanistan != T-72's coming through the Gap
I find that the Military is a bit behind in teaching propper techniques in shooting pistol. The Reg Force side of things may be different though. The browning is a fine pistol, as long as you get one that works and serviceable mags.
When I was at accuracy plus a few months back, I was there when the guy from glock was making a delivery of handguns. He said that they had given some g19 RTF2's to the CF for evaluation. Although he coulda been talkin BS.
When I was at accuracy plus a few months back, I was there when the guy from glock was making a delivery of handguns. He said that they had given some g19 RTF2's to the CF for evaluation. Although he coulda been talkin BS.
According to someone who would know, if you get one that doesn't work and you need one that does, send it back and they'll send out a new one (Brand New) for you to take with you. If however you want a new one and you're not planning a trip, forget it - the guys who need them, get them. There are still a respectable number of new Inglis Hi Powers in the system and there is no need to replace them any time soon. According to another person who would know Navy boarding parties have P226's and have received (West Coast) C8's to replace the MP5, but it isn't all sun and fun - they have to beg to adjust their LBV's (which were designed for infantrymen who were unlikely to try and wear them over a PFD) and are being given the old MP5 single point slings for the C8's. It's not just a job.....
Im guessing it all depends on the instructors. On my DP2, the instructor was teaching the "cup and saucer" technique, and when asked by a candidate on what the sight picture should look like, the response was "im not really sure, you will have to wait until you are on the range to figure it out for yourself". Keep in mind this is Reserve world though so. Reg Force is prob a lot different.
I have had more bad than good experiences with the HP. Especially with the old mags. Jammo-matic. Don't forget those front sights. Every single range I have done a couple of front sights go flying off while firing. Right on..... Even the front sights that are actually secure, most of them have a zero that is WAY off even at 15m.
Actual service in mind, I have gotten sand in my HP, and I had a hell of a time getting the mag out, let alone move the action. It took some percussive maintenance, and alot of detail cleaning to fix that. All in all, I am completely unimpressed, and a new service pistol is badly needed. I have personally only had 1 single HP my whole career that shot where I aimed it.
Actual service in mind, I have gotten sand in my HP, and I had a hell of a time getting the mag out, let alone move the action. It took some percussive maintenance, and alot of detail cleaning to fix that. All in all, I am completely unimpressed, and a new service pistol is badly needed. I have personally only had 1 single HP my whole career that shot where I aimed it.
Last edited:
Milofficer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
I've had my share of BHP moments.. competing at CFSAC a few years ago, i noticed i was shooting quite a few more "hostages" than i was intending to.. after the match i noticed my front sight had just about migrated off the frame and had to get re-staked.
This, of course, in addition to the usual litany of FTE's, double feeds and so -on usually attributed to the magazines.
I've seen (and played with) both the Navy's P225's and the Close Protection P226's, and I liked them both more as a service pistol. I think, for all intents and purposes, that the BHP is outdated and ought to get replaced with a suitable, more modern replacement.
What would I like to see in a BHP replacement? Clear, crisp sights, preferably with tritium, an accessory rail, magazine size equal or greater than the BHP, and decent grips. Most other things are a tossup, in my opinion. I know that my criteria basically opens up options to a number of potential pistols. I do think that there should be a somewhat open - ended competition for a replacement.
If I had a say in which pistols would be in the competition, I would love to see the following:
Sig P226R
S&W M&P 9
CZ-75 SP-01
CZ-75 P-07 Duty
BHP Mk3
Glock 19, 17
FN FNP-9
HK P30
IMI Jericho 941
..but that's just me. I think in all likelihood the P226 is going to eventually replace the BHP in the future, mostly because it's already in the system (for JTF 2, Close Protection, etc), and that will likely count strongly in its favour when the time comes.
My 0.02
This, of course, in addition to the usual litany of FTE's, double feeds and so -on usually attributed to the magazines.
I've seen (and played with) both the Navy's P225's and the Close Protection P226's, and I liked them both more as a service pistol. I think, for all intents and purposes, that the BHP is outdated and ought to get replaced with a suitable, more modern replacement.
What would I like to see in a BHP replacement? Clear, crisp sights, preferably with tritium, an accessory rail, magazine size equal or greater than the BHP, and decent grips. Most other things are a tossup, in my opinion. I know that my criteria basically opens up options to a number of potential pistols. I do think that there should be a somewhat open - ended competition for a replacement.
If I had a say in which pistols would be in the competition, I would love to see the following:
Sig P226R
S&W M&P 9
CZ-75 SP-01
CZ-75 P-07 Duty
BHP Mk3
Glock 19, 17
FN FNP-9
HK P30
IMI Jericho 941
..but that's just me. I think in all likelihood the P226 is going to eventually replace the BHP in the future, mostly because it's already in the system (for JTF 2, Close Protection, etc), and that will likely count strongly in its favour when the time comes.
My 0.02
Ex-Dragoon
Member
- Location
- Halifax NS
On the East Coast the Navy Boarding Parties still have the Sig P225 with no talk of it being replaced anytime soon by the Sig P226.
So I guess that really leaves a service member no different off than if they had a C6, C9, Carl G, or C7A1 in their hands, eh?
As current training says the pistol won't have a round up the spout, I don't think the safety is going to be too much of an issue if you follow that dogma.
I'm guessing that your instructors didn't have an infantry DP3A sgt in the bunch.
It is difficult to believe that anybody qualified infantry sgt via the DP3A SAIC would be teaching that kind of grip or telling you they had no idea what kind of a sight picture to take. And that should cover DP3A PRES sgts as well.
If you have other combat arms teaching small arms via osmosis, I wouldn't be any more startled at less than optimal results than I would be if we had infantry NCOs teaching artillery how to lay and fire their guns, or infantry teaching armoured gunners how to run the main gun in the Leopard.
I think the only thing seriously needing help on the handgun is the sights. They are simply far too small.
Magazines and malfunctions. Why do we focus on the pistol instead of those in full retard mode who get a magazine that causes malfunctions, ##### and whine to everybody within hearing distance all day at the range, and then at the end of the day just hand that magazine in for the next unfortunate dude to draw instead of taking the time to stomp on it before handing it back in?
Or perhaps instead lay the blame on a**hole storesman Cpl Ratboy like we recently had - the ones who WON'T tag a weapon for repair when you hand it in at the end of the day and tell them it needs repair. The ones who take a .50 cal driving rod and springs which you have just handed to them telling them it is bent, bend it sort of back by hand, and then throw that bent driving rod back in with all the good bolts and driving rods to be handed out again.
This is at the Infantry School at Gagetown - you know, the Combat Training Center of Excellence?
These kind of morons are the problem in many instances, not the weapons. You can't blame the weapons when retards keep handing out broken and malfunctioning parts to use in them. Do you think troops like that will change their ways just because we buy new weapons? I don't.
Prior to the nasty new gun laws, I got tired of getting shyte magazines and acquired my own pistol mags. Suddenly, my Jam-o-matic Inglis ran like a top, no malfunctions whatsoever. Jeez, imagine that.
So the magazine issue is a fix by getting rid of old and malfunctioning magazines, in my mind.
And the magazine safety is something that I am not going to lose any sleep over. If somebody can actually show me a list of no-shyte incidences where people actually did come out second in a gunfight because of that safety, then I might get concerned. As it is, I'm willing to bet that safety has saved more people from being shot by a moron doing bad weapon drills than it has caused guys to lose gunfights. I can take it or leave it without losing sleep either way.
But those sights are miserable.
It would be interesting to dig up half a dozen new, unfired Inglis's and shoot them to see just what kind of accuracy and reliability they offered out of the box.
Magazines and malfunctions. Why do we focus on the pistol instead of those in full retard mode who get a magazine that causes malfunctions, ##### and whine to everybody within hearing distance all day at the range, and then at the end of the day just hand that magazine in for the next unfortunate dude to draw instead of taking the time to stomp on it before handing it back in?
Or perhaps instead lay the blame on a**hole storesman Cpl Ratboy like we recently had - the ones who WON'T tag a weapon for repair when you hand it in at the end of the day and tell them it needs repair. The ones who take a .50 cal driving rod and springs which you have just handed to them telling them it is bent, bend it sort of back by hand, and then throw that bent driving rod back in with all the good bolts and driving rods to be handed out again.
This is at the Infantry School at Gagetown - you know, the Combat Training Center of Excellence?
These kind of morons are the problem in many instances, not the weapons. You can't blame the weapons when retards keep handing out broken and malfunctioning parts to use in them. Do you think troops like that will change their ways just because we buy new weapons? I don't.
Prior to the nasty new gun laws, I got tired of getting shyte magazines and acquired my own pistol mags. Suddenly, my Jam-o-matic Inglis ran like a top, no malfunctions whatsoever. Jeez, imagine that.
So the magazine issue is a fix by getting rid of old and malfunctioning magazines, in my mind.
And the magazine safety is something that I am not going to lose any sleep over. If somebody can actually show me a list of no-shyte incidences where people actually did come out second in a gunfight because of that safety, then I might get concerned. As it is, I'm willing to bet that safety has saved more people from being shot by a moron doing bad weapon drills than it has caused guys to lose gunfights. I can take it or leave it without losing sleep either way.
But those sights are miserable.
It would be interesting to dig up half a dozen new, unfired Inglis's and shoot them to see just what kind of accuracy and reliability they offered out of the box.
The Instructor that was teaching the lecture was a PRES MCpl. I cannot speak for how the regforce staff taught pistol to the other sections. On the course we had 1 PRES MCpl, 1 PRES Sgt, 1 Regforce MCpl, and 3 Regforce Sgt's. The regforce mcpl, was a gun owner, funny guy, he hated liberals. He taught propper techinique from what i saw on the range. While on the range the Reg Sgt's grabbed a bunch of the failures and taught them propper technique. As I said, toonland is a big difference from the regs.
Infantry? Engineer? etc... An infantry MCpl may well not have DP3A SAIC yet, and an other arms Jack probably never will get that qualification.
What's funny about hating liberals? Isn't that a normal state of being?
I wouldn't be assuming that all things instructional are generally better in the regs if I were you... It seems to be more on a case by case basis, along with the "Do I give a shyte today?" factor. When you're on an urban ops instructor (or whatever the course) course and the instructors don't want to be there, the fact they're regs (or reservists or whatever the hell) really doesn't matter.
Properly speaking, if an NCO does not have the training to present the material they're teaching, somebody who does know the material should bring them up to speed. People should not have to fail before qualified instructors intervene. Doesn't matter whether you're teaching firearms, ETHAR, comms, whatever. Get them proper instruction from the start, instead of doing remedial instruction afterwards when you're trying to undo what was wrongly/improperly taught before. What a concept!
I don't think double action is a big deal for the military.
Unless things have changed in the past 20 years
the C1, C2 (ok well you have not seen alot of those in awhile)
C3,C6, C7, C8,C9, LAW, and the Carle G, are all single action. I think canadian soldiers can handle a single action pistol.
Unless things have changed in the past 20 years
the C1, C2 (ok well you have not seen alot of those in awhile)
C3,C6, C7, C8,C9, LAW, and the Carle G, are all single action. I think canadian soldiers can handle a single action pistol.
