Bubba'ing milsurps - My head is spinning
- Thread starter kjohn
- Start date
Here's the rub though...the deluded DO enjoy it! You think someone who fiddles with their own stuff is some kind of masochist? They remove one part at a time because it hurts so good?
They don't share our perspective, but they aren't deluded, nor have they ruined it for everyone. They did what they wanted with their own stuff. I'm guessing if an opportunity to chastise them personally were presented, many wouldn't apologize. Quite the opposite!
I love my 'surps. I don't defend the "customizing" of these gems. I have to point out it's not my/our call. Get over it.
Well of course they enjoy it, its part of the delusion! I don't pretend to tell anybody what they can & can't do with something they legally purchased. I will tell them what I think is the more prudent course of action & history will decide which of us the is the fool.
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
I go both ways(kind of). I like re sporterizing bubba fugged rifles almost as much as restoring ones that can be saved. It's good times.
If it's meat in a freezer, and not a dedication to history preservation (which is a concept that is wide spread gun-wise)? Someone who has actually seen one used for it's designed purpose, and happily altered it? History has already vindicated these folks.
Do you still have your childhood toys new in the package? Betcha don't, and more so don't have a whit of regret for the fun you had opening, and playing with them...You certainly aren't delusional, and you certainly didn't ruin your toy for everyone.
Bang on. I have trouble turning down a good deal on a sported Enfield. I love to bring them back to original or just making the sporter into a nicer sporter. Worst case, I have a parts rifle. If people didn't sport these rifles I wouldn't have a hobby.
I have seen some very beautiful sporters made from milsurps and apreciate the work that went into them. Here's the thing. Not all, in fact most of these rifles never saw action. So to call them old war horse heroe vetrans is a bit of a reality stretch.
After you have seen literally tens of thousands of military rifles over many years, warehouses full of them, you tend to take a bit of a different view.
Yeah, but where are they now? Bet my Hyundai has a bit of garand in it.
Most of my toys where pre-owned so they didn't come with a box but my Tonka fire engine was in nice shape & is on its third child now.
For anyone who thinks they are "making a rifle better" by chopping it up.
I've witnessed what these guns can do in the hands of a man who can shoot. Buffdog Who is in his early 70's shot 15 rounds in about 20 seconds out of my brothers 1920 no1 last summer. Buffdog had never even held that rifle before. The target a 12" gong set up at 300 yards. All I heard was 13 times it went "gong".
My brother and I left the range and both agreed that we could grab 10 guys our age and line up on a battlefield across from Buffdog. He would surely kill 10 of us before we even got a shot off!
No how can you make a rifle better then that?
I've witnessed what these guns can do in the hands of a man who can shoot. Buffdog Who is in his early 70's shot 15 rounds in about 20 seconds out of my brothers 1920 no1 last summer. Buffdog had never even held that rifle before. The target a 12" gong set up at 300 yards. All I heard was 13 times it went "gong".
My brother and I left the range and both agreed that we could grab 10 guys our age and line up on a battlefield across from Buffdog. He would surely kill 10 of us before we even got a shot off!
No how can you make a rifle better then that?
You don't seriously let kids play with the toys? Oh the horror...to a toy collector, and enthusiast. Funny though, you don't seem all that sorry. History will frown upon thee, and thine sired. Doubt you'll have too many sleepless nights over it.
What's done is done. Fine. What's being done doesn't need our approval, nor do those who do it care about our approval. You prefer to use "lament" over "whine", and it's as good an adjective as any, and doesn't sound so negative.
"...Do we really need more sporters though?..." When you say "we", do you mean history afficiondos, or all shooters? The fact that folks are still lopping off bits and pieces would suggest they thought another sporter was warranted.
"...Is there a lack of hunting rifles? Have they stopped producing hunting rifles so there is a finite supply?" Well...given a Mosin can be had for less than many purpose hunting arms(half?), and is more than capable of knocking meat from nature to a freezer, then it IS a hunting rifle. Any Mosins here in Canada will not be issued again.
"The last mosin was made in 1950's & most of them are way older than that. Have they not endured enough?" Uh oh...suggesting iron n' wood is "enduring" anything might loan itself to delusional... Given that more than 13 million of these bits 'o' history(91/30) were made between '27 and '45 for the purpose of slaying folks, if I were to assign an emotion to the inanimate (and share the delusion) I'd like to think some of them were grateful.
Again, I don't like the notion of these getting altered. I just think it pitiable that folks will take time to rant about what someone else does with their own property.
Along with a bumper from a 57 Chev
I have a Lee Enfield that was sporterized by a well known British firearm maker from years gone by. I can imagine the looks on the faces of the gunsmiths as they went about turning these weapons of war into sporting tools. "oi' what do we do with these millions of relics?''. We look as it is a crime, they thought they were being punished.
I have an all matching enfield no1 mk3 1917 that my grandfather bought in 1949. The rifle was sportered when he got it and that is the way it will stay. I would have preferred it not be chopped, but it has just as much history as it did when in service.
If someone did the same thing now I would not like it as much.
If someone did the same thing now I would not like it as much.
This is the truth of it, lol! The same attitude prevailed when Enfields and Mausers were a dime a dozen. As much as I hate to see an old girl chopped down or torn to pieces, I am a big fan of property rights. I can't stop you, but at the same time, you can't make me like it. Nuff said. I DO like to see guns beyond restoration put to new purpose however. Those 45 ACP Enfield projects seem pretty cool. Nice if you have an old beat up action kicking around!
Many comments here are somewhat disapointing. Why care about the past? Without knowing your past, you can't choose your future. Lack of care for heritage leads to a society with no destination. What's the link with Bubba? Well, some folks will consider a firearm that was used in some of the most significant events in humanity's history to be of importance. Bubba will think the opposite, which I really can't undestand. And the "it's my gun, I can do what I want with it", that I can't understand either. Sure, for a commercial Norinco gun, but one that has a direct link to your own history? I would dare to qualify such attitude as selfish and narrow minded, but I will rather say that it's a sad lack of appreciation for what ensures that the fabric of our society stays cohesive - i.e. heritage, our history, our culture.
I would even bring this down at a more individual scale. Say your great granpa fought in the trenches, and that he's still alive. He hands you his rifle, telling you that this is what kept him alive and ensured your freedom. You say "thanks granpa", turn around and transform the rifle into a lamp, all the while telling your granpa that this is just an object like any other object. Wouldn't this be perceived at somewhat disrespectful?
Ok, I'll have a cup of hot coffee and put my attitude back in the closet.
I would even bring this down at a more individual scale. Say your great granpa fought in the trenches, and that he's still alive. He hands you his rifle, telling you that this is what kept him alive and ensured your freedom. You say "thanks granpa", turn around and transform the rifle into a lamp, all the while telling your granpa that this is just an object like any other object. Wouldn't this be perceived at somewhat disrespectful?
Ok, I'll have a cup of hot coffee and put my attitude back in the closet.
- Location
- Onterrible
What has my head spinning is what people ask for Bubba'd rifles!!! Just saw a '43 Fazakerly asking $250-$300 + shipping sell because the barrel hadn't been cut?!?! The restoration would cost $200-$250 depending on whether it's done correctly or not and what still has to be changed.... And you still have a $400-$500 gun!
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/984424-1943-No4-Mk1-s-matching-uncut-barrel-original-ladder-sight
Problem is that there are those out there that have no idea what they are buying and what it's worth when it's done! On the EE right now there's a '43 Longbranch rebuild asking $900! Just because you put TOO MUCH into it doesn't make it worth more.... But again, these guys will find another person that doesn't know what they are buying and the cycle continues...
The upside; those of us with all matching originals now have a more valuable collection.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/984424-1943-No4-Mk1-s-matching-uncut-barrel-original-ladder-sight
Problem is that there are those out there that have no idea what they are buying and what it's worth when it's done! On the EE right now there's a '43 Longbranch rebuild asking $900! Just because you put TOO MUCH into it doesn't make it worth more.... But again, these guys will find another person that doesn't know what they are buying and the cycle continues...
The upside; those of us with all matching originals now have a more valuable collection.
- Location
- Onterrible
Respectfully, I disagree... chopping it no matter when it happened takes away from the historical value, because it is now a different rifle than the one that defended our freedom. On the other hand I could see why you would leave it the way it is for sentimental reasons.
"...can't help but feel sick..." Whatever for? In days gone past, nobody ever thought any milsurp would ever be worth anything. A day will come that horror will ensue when some kid puts a scope or some other daft thing on an AR too.
"...Ghettysburg...Aushwitz..." Where?
"...Ghettysburg...Aushwitz..." Where?
