Bullet Testing Box

I went to the range last night for the first attempt to use the bullet box. It didn't go too well!

FYI; I've got .270, .30-06, .300H&H, 8x57, .338WM loaded so far for testing.


First off, it took a while to set up and load all the papers into the box. When I get the papers from the Whitecourt Star, some of them are in bundles, that are held together with plastic banding straps; those are the way to go! ####ing around with loose papers is a real P.I.T.A. I guess I shoulda known that.

The next issue is the sliding panel. I made the clearance on the bottom a little too tight, so it was binding on the bottom of the box as I tightened the bolts. I have to take a bit off the bottom of the panel so it will move without binding up.

And the last problem was I forgot the damn tripod for mounting my Chrony! Without the Chrony I can't get the data I want. So after 45 minutes of pissing around, I had to turn around and just pack everything back up and head home.

####!

So I'm on hold again until I can make the adjustment to that sliding panel. Maybe Monday.

Later...
 
You have the makings of interesting testing for all of us. The trick will be repeatable (valid) results. The test medium has to be consistent from test to test.

I collect phone books. When they are being distributed, they leave big bundles of new ones in the lobby of apartment buildings and office towers. Then big bundles of used ones seem to appear too. For testing I soak them overnight in a pail (pistol test) or garbage can (rifle).

But you are going to need far more paper than hording phone books will supply. I guess that leaves newspaper as the only available source.

Wet paper gives a meaningful test of a hunting bullet. The last time I tested I was shooting 60 gr soft point and hollow point into wet phone books. I got the impression that the first shot squeezed out enough water that the second shot was into drier paper. For your big rifle calibers that might be a problem.

The farther back you can get from the box the better. 100 yards would be best. This drops velocity down to more like a hunting velocity and by then the bullet has stabilized. Close range testing can cause a bullet to tumble or break up because of yaw.

When we test into ballistic gelatin, we shoot each block with a reference bullet, so we can note any differences in the firmness of the gelatin. A 22 and a box of premium match ammo would give you a good reference shot for each test shot.
 
^ I think the wet paper is the way to go IF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN RANGE/FACILITY. I was planning on soaking the paper but the logistics of moving it are hard enough when it's dry; wet it just weighs so much more, and since I have to carry it across town to the local gun range, it's too hard too do wet. Also I have the idea that reliably repeating the moisture content would be tricky, so I have decided to shoot into dry paper.

I am going to go tomorrow. First thing I am going to do is take an hour to bundle all the papers into manageable size piles and then tape them into bundles with electrical tape.

I also have to make the mods to that sliding panel.
 
I was reading a ballistics text the other day and happened accross a discussion of various ways of trapping bullets. Wet paper seemed to be the only medium economicaly avilable that would work to show you the impact damge.

If you just wanted to recover the bullet, then the option they mentioned was oiled sawdust.
 
B.U.M. I went out last Saturday and did some shooting. The box worked great, but maybe too good. I got a little greedy because I found I could easily shoot multiple shoots into each window; like I was doing 3 in each. So I ended up with a dozen bullets in it. The problem was trying to separate the paper and sort out a dozen damn spent bullets! I could do it, just not the best way to go. So I am going to repeat the test but only fire 4 at a time.

Preliminary results, pics to follow...

Most of the conventional cup and core lead bullets, penetrated around 8-9". They were torn all to hell; it was dry, compressed paper. About the best of them seemed to be the Nosler Accubond, but I gotta evaluate them a bit more when I get around to cleaning up the bullets and taking pics of them. I made sure to take small "baggies" and catalogued each bullet.

The 200gr .323cal TSX penetrated the most; it was about 13" if I remember. It had the classic X bullet 4-petaled expansion.

I am of the opinion that the TSX would be a decent bullet in the .323 and .358 calibers (8x57 & .35Whelen) that I have.
 
I finally have some pics of the different bullets I tested (so far). I shot .270Win, .30-06 and 8x57 a few weeks ago and today I fired the .416RM.
I have misplaced the data from the small cal stuff, which had impact velocities and penetration depths. It might turn up and if it does I will try to get that info in here.

Lots of pics!

The .270, .30-06, and 8x57 bullets were fired at 30 yards, the .416 was fired at 35 yards... just the way it worked out...

I have to extend a special tanks to Dogleg, who provided a bunch of the .416 bullets for this test.




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I positioned the Chrony right in front of the box.

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.270 140gr Nosler Accubond

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Another angle of the 140gr .270 Acc

Kinda funky distortion, or fold in the jacket. On every Accubond I recovered, in the various calibers, there is a characteristic cup in the end of the bullet, where it expanded back into the jacket and then held together.

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.270 140gr Hornady BTSP... Just all mashed together...

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.270 150gr Sierra GameKing. Squished.

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.270 150gr Hornady IL, pretty much the same as the Sierra.

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.30-06 165gr Hornady BTSP, one of my favorite deer bullets. You can actually distinguish parts of the bullet here!

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.30-06 180gr BTSP. This bullet shows the lead coming out of the famous "interlock", something that happened on these bullets, in several calibers.

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Back of that same .30-06 180gr Hornady. The bullet did mushroom well. The dry newspaper is a severe test, in animal flesh I bet this would have been the so-called perfect mushroom.

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Here's a .30-06 200gr Nosler partition that flattened... all that stuff on the left side is pulverized newspaper that was stuck to the bullet, I don't think I got it all off even.

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A view of the back of that 200gr NP, you can see how it flattened.

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.30-06 200gr Accubond, see the cupped termination of the expansion again. I am beginning to think the Accubond is a superior bullet to the legendary partition!

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Another view of the .30-06 200gr Accubond.



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8x57 195gr Hornady IL, with complete "puking" of the lead internals evident.

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8x57 195gr Hornady IL... that jacket is EMPTY!

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8x57 200gr Barnes TSX. This bullet penetrated approx 13" into the compressed, dry newspaper, which was the deepest pentration of any of the small caliber bullets (the other small cals were in the 8-10" range).

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I sorted and catalogued every bullet, for future reference; "bagged and tagged".

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A box of .416RemMag ammo waiting to be fired, Oct 7 2008.

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.416RM 400gr Hornady IL with an empty core; 10-1/4" penetration. Impact vel 2320fps.

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That same 400gr Hornady IL. These things would be great on "light-skinned" N.A. game. I shot a big bull moose with this bullet a few years ago and the terminal performance was fantastic.

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This is the bullet I recovered from that bull moose. It stopped on his spine, at about 250 yards.

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Bullet recoverd from bull moose; 400gr Hornady IL (beside a .338 cal 250gr NP).

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400gr Hornady IB, with "shrapnel" jacket material; 11-1/4" penetration. Impact vel 2377fps.

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Left: 350gr Speer HotCor. I think these bullets would be great for any N.A. big game, provided the accuracy in your rifle is acceptable; 12" penetration (no vel data). Right: 400gr Trophy Bonded bear Claw. Big mushroom; 11-1/2" penetration. 2206fps impact vel.

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400gr Nosler Partition; 15" penetration. Impact vel 2254fps. I would not hesitate to shoot anything outside of elephant, with this bullet.

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400gr NP; typical NP performance, it has lost the lead in the nose...

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400gr Swift A-Frame. You can see the characteristic A-Frame, bulge in the bullet (although maybe not in this pic); 11" penetration. Only 2022fps impact vel, not sure why this was so low compared to the other 400gr bullets.

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350gr Barnes TSX; 12" penetration. 2348fps impact vel.

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400 gr TSX; 15" penetration. 2152 fps impact vel.

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L-R: 400gr NP; 350gr TSX; 400gr TSX and 400gr Swift A-F.

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400gr Hornady Encapsulated solid. Guts of the bullet squishing out the end, bullet slightly deformed/flattened.

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Another look at the end of the Hornady Encapsulated Solid. 27-1/2" penetration (no vel data).

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400gr Barnes Banded Solid; you can almost read the magic marker still! 34" penetration, hole in the paper looked like it had been made with a paper punch! No vel data.



Edited: To add penetration depth of the Barnes Banded Solid and Hornady Encapsulated Solid.
 
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:cool:

Thanks for the pics and info. That represents a lot of work, but satisfaction also.:)

I've done a significant amount of testing in a variety of media. The most important is results in game, of course. Apart from that, I've tried sand, sand and gravel, damp earth and rocks (to simulate bone), trees, ice and frozen bear bait (after bear season) and dry magazines (the toughest). But the most convenient and easiest is to dig out the schrapnel from the berm behind the 100yd target. And most of it is schrapnel! Those that survive are very few.

The berm behind the 100 yd target at our range is mostly natural earth, but now infested with hundreds of thousands of rounds from 22 LR to 12 ga. slugs. The ones that have shown the best results from my rifles have been hardcast lead and Barnes X or TSX, in other words mono-metal. That's apart from solids intended for African game.

Dry magazines (or perhaps newsprint) in a box is extremely tough on bullets. Phil Shoemaker has confirmed that as well.

One thing about penetration tests that needs to be kept in mind though: it's not just about penetration in the killing of game. It's the damage that's done internally. Forensic evidence has long ago determined that the volume of the wound cavity (in a vital area) determines lethality.

For that reason, Partitions are very good bullets but not always the most lethal because of a number of reasons, but primarily a relatively small frontal area.:canadaFlag:
 
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bigborefan, I have to comment about the NP expansion. The NP is reknowned for shedding the front core and the remainder, that then drives forward is smaller in diameter, but that initial expansion is wide, usually 2 times caliber and it releases a huge amount of energy plus blows a big wound channel in doing so.

Check out the weak expansion on the 400gr TSX! It penetrated very deeply... exactly the same as the 400gr NP in fact.



Btw, I for got to mention the penetration depth of the 2 solids: the Barnes Banded Solid went 34" and the Hornady Encapsulated went 27-1/2".

I compressed the paper to 10ft/lbs with the torque wrench on each bolt. That doesn't sound like much, but the paper was firm.
 
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Those are some hellacious impact velocities from the 416 though I'd like to see the 400 grainers closer to 2400 FPS and the 350s between 2500 and 2600 to simulate Rigby velocities. No need to get too excessive and go to WBY velocities though. I agree that the TBBC, IB, NPT, A-Frame and TSX would do fine for anything short of ele. I'm not surprised at the performance of the Banded Solid or Hornady Encapsulated solids.

Damned fine test.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Those are some hellacious impact velocities from the 416 though I'd like to see the 400 grainers closer to 2400 FPS and the 350s between 2500 and 2600 to simulate Rigby velocities. No need to get too excessive and go to WBY velocities though. I agree that the TBBC, IB, NPT, A-Frame and TSX would do fine for anything short of ele. I'm not surprised at the performance of the Banded Solid or Hornady Encapsulated solids.

Damned fine test.
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Jeez BUM, I don't know, do you think I am not loading fast enough? Those are at just 35 yards. The .416RM can handle up to 2400fps MV. I'm not sure what you mean.
 
Compressing the paper in your box makes for a extremely hard test medium. Seems to me much harder than just "loose" paper stacked up.

As to the TSX that did not peel back all the way I had the same type of thing happen when shooting TSX into dry newspaper, some did not open at all.


The 400g partitions have their "partition" really far forwards in comparison to smaller cal. partitions. Must be for extra penetration on Dangerous game.
 
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Demonical said:
Jeez BUM, I don't know, do you think I am not loading fast enough? Those are at just 35 yards. The .416RM can handle up to 2400fps MV. I'm not sure what you mean.
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I'm not hacking on your tests, at all. I was just opining that it would be interesting to see the results at buffalo stomping range and at higher speeds. The tests do give a pretty fair idea. I appreciate the work your doing though...don't doubt that!
 
Republic of Alberta said:
Compressing the paper in your box makes for a extremely hard test medium. Seems to me much harder than just "loose" paper stacked up.

As to the TSX that did not peel back all the way I had the same type of thing happen when shooting TSX into dry newspaper, some did not open at all.


The 400g partitions have their "partition" really far forwards in comparison to smaller cal. partitions. Must be for extra penetration on Dangerous game.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, for sure! I have read lots of stories about solids from .416's penetration in elephant bull skulls, like 5+ feet range, and I didn't get even 3' out of either of these, so that paper is some tough stuff!

In these tests, none of the Hornady IL's fared too well; makes 'em look like poor bullets, but any veteran hunter should know that the IL is one of the best hunting bullets going... just don't shoot it into dry, compressed newsprint! :p

Also in fairness to the Hornady dangerous game bullets, they have come out with new bullets that replace the 400gr IB and Encapsulated solid, the DGX and DGS. I have some of the DGS (dangerous game solid) and for some stupid reason I never got around to loading any. :confused:


BUM my 400gr loads with the Hornady IL, that I shot that bull moose with, Chrony'd at ~2375fps MV... FYI.
 
Demonical,
The .416 A-Frames mike out 5 10 thousandth" smaller than than the other bullets, I bet that accounts for the lower velocities with that bullet/load. I'm not surprised that the flat solids out penetrated round nose ones, penetration tests usually end up about 20% in favor of the flats. They act like a paper punch on elephants as well. Impala too.
 
I found the missing info for the small caliber stuff I fired into the box. This was all fired at 30 yards and into dry, compressed newspaper.


.270Win:
140gr Nosler Accubond, impact velocity 2963fps, penetration 7".
140gr Hornady IL, imp. vel. 2960fps, pen 7-1/2".
150gr Sierra GameKing, imp. vel. 2800fps, 9-7/8" pen.
150gr Horn IL, imp. vel. 2798fps 9" pen.

.30-06:
165gr Horn IL imp. vel. 2723fps, 8-3/4" pen.
180gr Horn IL, no data... ?
200gr Nos Acc, imp. vel. 2426fps, 7-1/2" pen.
200gr Nos Part, imp. vel. 2350, 8-1/2" pen.

8x57:
195gr Horn IL, no vel. data, 8-1/2" pen.
200gr Nos Acc, 2565fps 10" pen.
200gr Barnes TSX, 2553fps, 12-3/4" pen.
 
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