Bullet weight for VZ24
- Thread starter y2k
- Start date
He's quite right. 12.8 gram 's5' Spitzer bullet (197.5 grains)
IIRC they used both 198 gr "heavy ball" for machine gun use and the 150 grain "light ball" for the Mauser 98.
In German use the 154grn 'S' bullet was replaced for both rifles and machine guns by the 198grn 'sS' bullet (introduced in 1918 for MG use) during the Reichswehr period.
Czechs loaded a 198grn bullet in their 7.92x57mm ammunition, which was widely used by German forces during WW2.
A bit off topic but it might help to explain...
A number of European countries (Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc.) adopted the German ammo configuration in the the same way as they adopted the German mauser action for their domestic production. The Swedes were different as they adopted a cartridge that was recommended by Norway (which was at one time ruled by Sweden).
A number of European countries (Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc.) adopted the German ammo configuration in the the same way as they adopted the German mauser action for their domestic production. The Swedes were different as they adopted a cartridge that was recommended by Norway (which was at one time ruled by Sweden).
Original configuration for the 7.9x57 was the 227 FBRN of 1888.
This was superceded by the 7.92mm S-bullet in 1904: 154 FB pointed, which was the standard bullet for WW1.
The JsS loading came out as a super-hot load, reserved for MG use, late in WW1. This was the 196-198 BT spitzer and it originally was intended as an anti-Tank load. Because everybody had a friend in the MG section, this ammo filtered down to the regular troopies very rapidly, being that the Tanks were scaring rhe bejabbers out of everyone they were pointed at. Everyone with any sense of survival wanted something that would knock out a Tank....... and this was pretty much IT before the TuF came along in '18.
When the Wehrmacht was being raised, replacing the Reichswehr, the JsS became the new standard. Owing to shortages of lead, the 178 BT pointed mild-steel-cored SmE actually was used more in combat, along with its AP brother-in-arms the SmK with a hardened core of the same weight. Much wartime and most post-war ammo followed this specification, even though Portugal stayed with the M937 (a copy of the JsS) and Turkey with the original 154FB spitzgschosse '04.
The original J bullet (227 RNFB) died of old age along with the Commission Rifle for which it was intended. Surviving Kommissionsgewehr 1888 rifles were converted to use the 1904 load and really should not be subjected to the harsh anti-Tank pressures of the JsS, although the reinforced barrel of the IG1888nm is less at risk here.
Hope this helps somehow.
.
This was superceded by the 7.92mm S-bullet in 1904: 154 FB pointed, which was the standard bullet for WW1.
The JsS loading came out as a super-hot load, reserved for MG use, late in WW1. This was the 196-198 BT spitzer and it originally was intended as an anti-Tank load. Because everybody had a friend in the MG section, this ammo filtered down to the regular troopies very rapidly, being that the Tanks were scaring rhe bejabbers out of everyone they were pointed at. Everyone with any sense of survival wanted something that would knock out a Tank....... and this was pretty much IT before the TuF came along in '18.
When the Wehrmacht was being raised, replacing the Reichswehr, the JsS became the new standard. Owing to shortages of lead, the 178 BT pointed mild-steel-cored SmE actually was used more in combat, along with its AP brother-in-arms the SmK with a hardened core of the same weight. Much wartime and most post-war ammo followed this specification, even though Portugal stayed with the M937 (a copy of the JsS) and Turkey with the original 154FB spitzgschosse '04.
The original J bullet (227 RNFB) died of old age along with the Commission Rifle for which it was intended. Surviving Kommissionsgewehr 1888 rifles were converted to use the 1904 load and really should not be subjected to the harsh anti-Tank pressures of the JsS, although the reinforced barrel of the IG1888nm is less at risk here.
Hope this helps somehow.
.
So the Czechs switched to the heavy ball in 1934.
MapleSugar
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Years ago, I read in some firearms book that the reason the Germans switched to the heavier bullets (198 gr.) for machine gun use, was because they traveled downrange further than the lighter ones (154 gr.)
It makes sense from a ballistics standpoint. Long range match bullets are usually heavier than standard bullets in the calibers they're used.
The German 154 grains bullet was the German answer to the French ball D at 198 grains.
During WW 1 Vickers and Maxim machine guns were used to fire area barrages. The machine guns had a panoramic sight similar to field artillery sights.
The Germans and the Americans found that they were being outranged by the other combatants and increased the weight and shape of their bullets for pointed flat based bullets to pointed boatail bullets.
Some early versions of W.B. Smith’s Small Arms of the World show the ballistic charts of the 154 and 198 grain bullets, and the long range advantage of the heaver bullet.
The Germans went to the 198 grains bullet and the Americans went to the M-2 at 172 grains.
For example the Swiss GP-11 at 174 grains is considered lethal to 4000 meters.
The German anti-tank round of WW 1 was a 13 mm round, used in a single shot Mauser rifle.
The 7.92 SmK armour piercing round was designed to shoot through steel shields used in trench warfare by individuals. One source said SmK was mainly issued to snipers.
During WW 1 Vickers and Maxim machine guns were used to fire area barrages. The machine guns had a panoramic sight similar to field artillery sights.
The Germans and the Americans found that they were being outranged by the other combatants and increased the weight and shape of their bullets for pointed flat based bullets to pointed boatail bullets.
Some early versions of W.B. Smith’s Small Arms of the World show the ballistic charts of the 154 and 198 grain bullets, and the long range advantage of the heaver bullet.
The Germans went to the 198 grains bullet and the Americans went to the M-2 at 172 grains.
For example the Swiss GP-11 at 174 grains is considered lethal to 4000 meters.
The German anti-tank round of WW 1 was a 13 mm round, used in a single shot Mauser rifle.
The 7.92 SmK armour piercing round was designed to shoot through steel shields used in trench warfare by individuals. One source said SmK was mainly issued to snipers.
y2k, the VZ24 was made up to accept any ammunition available at the time it was first introduced. At that time period, it could be any weight from around 150 grain to over 200 grains. The bullets might be round nosed or spitzer shaped. That is one of the main reasons they retained the appx 1-10 twist rate.
This was pretty much standard for most nations. It makes good sense as well.
The only thing that should really concern you, is that the usual milspec pressures were held to around 48,000ps, no matter which bullet weight they loaded.
One other thing, the sights on K98s are regulated for their barrel lengths. The usual distances for combat are under 300m and the sights are adjusted accordingly, so that is their lowest setting. For combat circumstances one sight setting for all bullet weights encountered, would be close enough.
This was pretty much standard for most nations. It makes good sense as well.
The only thing that should really concern you, is that the usual milspec pressures were held to around 48,000ps, no matter which bullet weight they loaded.
One other thing, the sights on K98s are regulated for their barrel lengths. The usual distances for combat are under 300m and the sights are adjusted accordingly, so that is their lowest setting. For combat circumstances one sight setting for all bullet weights encountered, would be close enough.
Ballistics from Hatcher’s Notebook, page 544,
Cartridge Ball Weight Velocity Range
30-06 M2 152 grain 2800 fps 3500 yards
30-06 M1 172 grain 2600 fps 5500 yards
30-40 Krag 200 grain 2000 fps 4050 yards
Maximum range and lethal range are different.
The Germans also made an iron core economical bullet to save lead labelled S.m.K.
During WW 1, after being cut off form the Chilean fertilizer, guano, the Germans made their nitrogen artificially from air for their ammunition..
Cartridge Ball Weight Velocity Range
30-06 M2 152 grain 2800 fps 3500 yards
30-06 M1 172 grain 2600 fps 5500 yards
30-40 Krag 200 grain 2000 fps 4050 yards
Maximum range and lethal range are different.
The Germans also made an iron core economical bullet to save lead labelled S.m.K.
During WW 1, after being cut off form the Chilean fertilizer, guano, the Germans made their nitrogen artificially from air for their ammunition..
