Bullets and loads we wish were still available.

W

Why not?

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This quote got me thinking about days gone by. :)

Johnn Peterson said:
Exactly, and that's why I think the 220gr and 250gr Originals are probably some of the best bullet choices available for my model 71. Some of todays technology in bullets like Barnes, definately seems to be the way to go. To a degree, that technology has cut down on 'yesterdays' benefits of weight.

On the topic of weight, recently I purchased a Husqvarna in 358 NM from Why not? and one of the goodies I ended up also getting from Ted is a box of Hornady 35 cal 275gr RN. Something different to try and actually, I wouldn't mind getting hold of a couple more boxes but it's a product is no longer produced. Also, on an old Hornady bullet display board that makes up some of the decore of my reloading room, there's a 275gr RN that used to be available for the 338 WM. Times are a changin'.
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While we all appreciate the great bullets and factory ammo we have available today, I'm sure Johnn is not the only one that misses some of the golden oldens. How about some musings on what we used to have that worked great, but for whatever reason is no longer available.

There are a lot of guys on this board who have never even heard of Kling-Kor Soft Points, for example, and they were a very reliable big game bullet that always expanded and penetrated well.

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I'll bet very few realize that the pointed plastic Ballistic Tip bullets so popular today, were first made in Canada by CIL. They were called Sabre-Tips, and available in factory ammo and as components. I'll try and get a picture up here later.

To start things off, in reference to the above quote, Speer also had a 275 gr RN in .338" for hand loaders, and Winchester offered a 338 Winchester Mag factory ammo load with a 300 gr Silvertip bullet. That load by the way, was absolutely devastating or a dismal failure, depending on who you talked to.

Oh, and Winchester also loaded 250 gr Silvertip factory ammo in 358 Winchester for at least 25 years. Hmmm, now that I think about it, CIL Dominion 358 ammo was loaded for at least that long with a 200 gr KKSP.

Then, of course, there was the Copper Point Expanding bullet, and the Pneumatic, and the........

Times changin' indeed. :)

Ted
 
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I'd like .455 Webley ammo, brass and/or bullets that don't cost a fortune.
Other old ones that are either way too expensive or generally hard to find-
.25 rimfire
.32 rimfire
25-35 win.
45-90 gov.
303 savage

Limited runs of these rounds would solve a lot of problems, but I guess the companies don't think it's worth it.:(
 
I remember the Saber Tips, and used 'em in my 30.06.

Before that I used "CPE", "Copper Point Expanding", in my .303 Brit, also from Imperial/Dominion/CIL. Tip was made of copper, not plastic. Worked pretty good.
 
Well Ted, you briefly mentioned it, but the CIL Copper Point Expanding, CPE, was my favourite. I used them in 180 grain 30-06 and I really think they were superior to Nosler. They always opened up and seemed to maintain most of their weight. A fellow east of Prince George who has probably shot more grizzly bears than any other person of fairly modern times, used a 30-06 and CIL loaded 180 grain CPE exclusively. He swore by them. The Sabre Tip followed the CPE design.
In 1975 Jack O'Connor wrote an article on the 50th anniversary of the 270 Winchester. He stated that the 130 grain bullet that Winchester designed to go with the 270, was in his opinion the best 130 grain 270 bullet ever designed. They had to give it up, because of cost.
 
The last few years that Imperial cartridges were made, a big point in their ad campaign was about the fact that they had scooped Nosler by 10 years or so in the plastic-tipped bullet. IIRC they marketed them first in 1962.
The CPE had an almost identical twin too....Remington's Bronze Point.

I'd like to see someone offer an 87-grain .250 Savage load, or the old Dominion/Imperial 100-grain with its very short bullet. And a big run of .351SL would be nice to see. And I don't need them, but I bet LOTS of guys would like to see Hornady's 200-grain bullet for the .33 WCF available again.
For most common cartridges, it's nostalgia. We've never had such a great selection of factory ammo or component bullets.

One thing about the old Imperial ammo. It seems to me there was a mindset at the time (typically Canadian, in a way) that our homegrown, much cheaper ammo was not as good as what the American big three offered. I really think it was buyer apathy, including my own, that led to the end of IVI's centrefire sporting ammo production.
 
How bout Hornady .224 55gr FMJ! They are still available just backordered for months now!

Its almost worse knowing that production and demand are the only reasons I can't get them!

They perform better than any bulk FMJ I have been able to find.
 
the bullets i miss the most are the ones that you just picked up the phone and the nice lady at Midway/Midsouth/Lock Stock and Barrel would put them in a box and mail them to my door.
 
7.62x39mm tracers!! Some a-hole thought it would be a good idea to show a CFO that if you hold a round near an open flame it can ignite. So now they are listed as "incindiary" which is prohib. Well done whoever you are.
 
Kilo Charlie said:
The last few years that Imperial cartridges were made, a big point in their ad campaign was about the fact that they had scooped Nosler by 10 years or so in the plastic-tipped bullet. IIRC they marketed them first in 1962.
The CPE had an almost identical twin too....Remington's Bronze Point.
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One thing about the old Imperial ammo. It seems to me there was a mindset at the time (typically Canadian, in a way) that our homegrown, much cheaper ammo was not as good as what the American big three offered. I really think it was buyer apathy, including my own, that led to the end of IVI's centrefire sporting ammo production.
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A lot of confussion about the word "Imperial." The early CIL, Dominion ammunition used various headstamps, like DCCo, Dominion, CIL Dominion, etc, but not the word Imperial.
Prior to WW2 and for a time after, their high speed 22 ammo was "WhizBang." Sometime later their high speed 22 was called "Imerial." The word Imperial also appeared on their centre fire headstamp.
When IVI took over the ammunition it became terrible, pathetic. I chronographed with an Oehler their 100 grain 243 bullets, said on the box to have a muzzle velocity of 3200 fps. Five shots from my 22 inch Ruger averaged 2540 fps, and a spread from high to low of 125.
Without even moving from the bench I shot five of my handloads with 100 grain Sierra bullets and they averaged 3094 with a spread of 43.

What you say about Canadians thinking our Canadian ammunition was inferior to the US ammunition is absolutely correct. But in no way was it inferior. After WW2 in what I call, darn it, here I go again, the glory years of shooting and hunting, Jack O'Connor wrote about our CIL ammunition. He considered it so good, that in Outdoor Life magazine, he actually said that hunters going to western Canada to hunt, would do well to wait and get their ammunition in
canada, because it was such good ammunition!
 
woodchopper said:
303 King Kor softpoints the 220 grain :D


oh and bullets that shoul have been the 280 Enfield that would have been a great cartridge and tons of surplus brass, That would be my deer gun
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Actually, the 303 KKSP was 215gr, but there was a 220 gr KKSP loaded in the 30-06! Loaded and shot hundreds of them, and both were great big game loads.

Ted
 
This was also the only place that offered 160-grain .270 ammo and was the last North American maker of 6.5 Swede until it was brought back by the Big Three in the mid-1980's. Also, one could get 20-packs of .25-20 and .351 SL as opposed to the 50-packs from the U.S.
 
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