Bullets vs Kevlar

Suputin

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
26   0   0
Putting on flame retardant suit in preparation for the firestorm of indignation this post is going to cause .... :roll:

However I choose knowledge over ignorance so any LE offended by this post should take the following information for what it is ... information and use it to make a more informed choice on their body armour and undertstand the limitations of that armour.

The photo pretty much says it all. The vest was ex-RCMP issue with a level II rating. It has 21 layers of kevlar. Rounds were fired from approx 10" with the vest sitting on top of a bucket full of wet phonebooks so we could get an idea of the blunt trama a wearer might suffer or catch any bullets that penetrated.

Level II is rated for high velocity 9mm and 357 mag.

KevlarVest.JPG


The subsonic rifle ammo was included just cause we had no idea how it would perform against the vest. The .30 cals blew through the vest like it wasn't there and then went through more than 16" of wet phonebooks to come out the other side in perfect condition.

Subsonic 223 only penetrated 2 layers of kevlar.

The 147gr Golden Sabre also only penetrated 2 layers. This bullet was included as a representative sample of common heavy JHP ammunition. We didn't expect it to penetrate but were interested to see how it would turn out.

The Winchester 85gr Ranger frangible went in 6 layers before being stopped by the kevlar. However it left a huge trauma impact in the paper. We highly suggest vest users include a chest trauma plate cause a bullet doesn't have to penetrate the vest to kill you.

The Blended Metals and Internation Frangible high velocity rounds blew through the vest and penetrated deeply into the wet paper.

We finally confirmed the longstanding rumours about the power of IVI FMJ 9mm. Fired out of a carbine it blew through the vest and about 9" of wet phonebook. Surprisingly this heftily constructed FMJ round even expanded quite a bit. Fired just into wet paper alone this round does not expand at all.
 
I'm amazed that two of the frangible rounds penetrated the vest! :shock: I would have to agree that a trauma plate should be used all the time.

I would have to say that the main lesson learned here is that never ever try to be a hero. Also, if you see a shoulder fired firearm of any kind....go for cover! Even a pistol round fired from a carbine will ruin your day.
 
Hi, are you sure that the IVI 9mm was 124 grain? if so what year ?
Not doubting you, all of the IVI that I've shot was 116 grain at 1450 fps average, out of a glock 17.

Oh by the way, nice work. :wink:

Cheer's
Bill
 
Actually I was a bit surprised the 85gr frangible didn't penetrate.

I had no takers on my offer to shoot someone wearing the vest with the ammo of their choice.
I offered to let you wear the vest and I shoot the bullets into the vest but your wife prevailed which is a good thing :lol:.I can tell you one thing the Winchester 85gr Frangibile bullet may not have penatrated the vest but the amount of trauma done to a person wearing the vest it could of caused a fatallity if you were hit in the right area :shock:
 
This reminds me of years ago at a EMS conference state side. The owner/Founder of Second Chance (The original soft vest), placed a telephone book (must of been 4-5" thick) down his shirt, slapped on a vest and proceeded to talk about the 44 Magnum, and the Dirty Harry story. After about 5 minutes of rambling, he pulls out a 44 mag and says to everyone, that he was going to shoot himself. :shock: . Crazy bugger actually did :shock: I peed my pants (well not quite); ever hear a 44 mag go off in a small crowded room? He gets up, staggers, pulls off the vest and shows us, that it wasn't penetrated. He then pulls out the telephone book. His parting words were, if the bullet doesn't get you, the shock wave will.

Sorry, can't find the NIJ ratings at the moment, but at the bottom of thislink, it has a reference table
 
Thats probaly the same crazy guy I saw on tape putting a 44 Magnum to his chest and firing it same result he to puy a telephone book under his vest, when asked why he did this he reply that he had confidence in the vest but as he did this alot it cut down on the bruesing.
Talk about standing behind your product.
 
Some more pics courtesy of Savage. Although he needs to work on his technique so hopefully we can get pics in focus next time. :D

This is the remains of the 85gr Ranger frangible, after penetrating 6 layers of kevlar.

VestFrangibleRanger.jpg


Here is the 147gr Golden Sabre stuck in the second layer. this pic was taken from the back side showing how the kevlar fibres entrap the bullet and stop it penetrating.

VestGoldenSabre.jpg


In both pics you can see how the fibres are pulled in, in a cross shape (verticle and horizontal) in the kevlar mesh.
 
trubluscrew said:
This reminds me of years ago at a EMS conference state side. The owner/Founder of Second Chance (The original soft vest), placed a telephone book (must of been 4-5" thick) down his shirt, slapped on a vest and proceeded to talk about the 44 Magnum, and the Dirty Harry story. After about 5 minutes of rambling, he pulls out a 44 mag and says to everyone, that he was going to shoot himself. :shock: . Crazy bugger actually did :shock: I peed my pants (well not quite); ever hear a 44 mag go off in a small crowded room? He gets up, staggers, pulls off the vest and shows us, that it wasn't penetrated. He then pulls out the telephone book. His parting words were, if the bullet doesn't get you, the shock wave will.

Sorry, can't find the NIJ ratings at the moment, but at the bottom of thislink, it has a reference table

I don't know for sure if it is the same guy, but I heard a story (maybe JUST a story??) about a vest maker that would take hits from a .308 Win.
Unfortunately, he mat a tragic end. Apparently, his friend thought it might be "funny" to pretend to attack him with a knife. It seems that ballistic DOES NOT stop knives.
Can anyone verify this story?
 
tootall said:
trubluscrew said:
This reminds me of years ago at a EMS conference state side. The owner/Founder of Second Chance (The original soft vest), placed a telephone book (must of been 4-5" thick) down his shirt, slapped on a vest and proceeded to talk about the 44 Magnum, and the Dirty Harry story. After about 5 minutes of rambling, he pulls out a 44 mag and says to everyone, that he was going to shoot himself. :shock: . Crazy bugger actually did :shock: I peed my pants (well not quite); ever hear a 44 mag go off in a small crowded room? He gets up, staggers, pulls off the vest and shows us, that it wasn't penetrated. He then pulls out the telephone book. His parting words were, if the bullet doesn't get you, the shock wave will.

Sorry, can't find the NIJ ratings at the moment, but at the bottom of thislink, it has a reference table

Sounds like BS, a rifle rated vest will most likely stop a knife as it requires a trauma plate.

I don't know for sure if it is the same guy, but I heard a story (maybe JUST a story??) about a vest maker that would take hits from a .308 Win.
Unfortunately, he mat a tragic end. Apparently, his friend thought it might be "funny" to pretend to attack him with a knife. It seems that ballistic DOES NOT stop knives.
Can anyone verify this story?

Sounds like BS, a rifle rated vest will most likely stop a knife as it requires a trauma plate.
 
Yeah I remember reading that story some where. The guy put on a vest and told his buddy to stab him, thinking that a bullet resistant vest would stop a knife aswell...because what is the difference right? Well the knife went through like it would and killed him. Companies make stab resistant vests or a vest that have both protecting properties.
 
This was with Wet Phone books underneeth? I read somewhere that a Vest Requires something compressible behind it, meaning if you just hang it up and shoot it, suff will go right through.

not sure about hard thing like the phone book. Maybe balistic clay or Gelitan would be a better medium to place behind the vests, for testing.

Still this is interesting info, I guess I need a level 3 vest or somthing with a plate...
 
Suputin said:
Putting on flame retardant suit in preparation for the firestorm of indignation this post is going to cause .... :roll:

However I choose knowledge over ignorance so any LE offended by this post should take the following information for what it is ... information and use it to make a more informed choice on their body armour and undertstand the limitations of that armour.

The photo pretty much says it all. The vest was ex-RCMP issue with a level II rating. It has 21 layers of kevlar. Rounds were fired from approx 10" with the vest sitting on top of a bucket full of wet phonebooks so we could get an idea of the blunt trama a wearer might suffer or catch any bullets that penetrated.

Level II is rated for high velocity 9mm and 357 mag.

KevlarVest.JPG


The subsonic rifle ammo was included just cause we had no idea how it would perform against the vest. The .30 cals blew through the vest like it wasn't there and then went through more than 16" of wet phonebooks to come out the other side in perfect condition.

Subsonic 223 only penetrated 2 layers of kevlar.

The 147gr Golden Sabre also only penetrated 2 layers. This bullet was included as a representative sample of common heavy JHP ammunition. We didn't expect it to penetrate but were interested to see how it would turn out.

The Winchester 85gr Ranger frangible went in 6 layers before being stopped by the kevlar. However it left a huge trauma impact in the paper. We highly suggest vest users include a chest trauma plate cause a bullet doesn't have to penetrate the vest to kill you.

The Blended Metals and Internation Frangible high velocity rounds blew through the vest and penetrated deeply into the wet paper.

We finally confirmed the longstanding rumours about the power of IVI FMJ 9mm. Fired out of a carbine it blew through the vest and about 9" of wet phonebook. Surprisingly this heftily constructed FMJ round even expanded quite a bit. Fired just into wet paper alone this round does not expand at all.


I wormed my way into a booth 2 years ago at Shot Show and watched the video of a company's blended metal technology, needless to say they shot everything they could think of with 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, .223 and .308, and used live pigs and a M.D. to do the cutting to show the effects, HOLY ####!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I wouldn't even want to get nailed with ceramic plates in on top of Kevlar, if your in my neighbourhood I'll show you the cd rom I got off them, you'll shiver like I do everytime I watch it, I won't show the results over the net (sorry), gives you as much protection as kleenex over your shirt
 
Back
Top Bottom