- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
I'd love a range where a CQB style course could be setup.
Calgary, "run and gun" with a rifle for newbie
- Thread starter Eluoci
- Start date
I'd love a range where a CQB style course could be setup.
I doubt you could "make a killing" building a range without retail support... It's not an easy task and takes an enormous amount of talent, effort, sacrifice, and capital.
Remember a lot of clubs are non-profit and volunteer driven - if you don't like the way they run - join them and volunteer to change things.
You'd be surprised how difficult it is running a gun range/club/shooting program, especially while most of the other guys running it with you work full time/run their own businesses/have families.
That's what I did/do - and let me tell you - it really is no small feat.
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Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not knocking what these guys are doing but I think it should be called "Military Rifle". Service Rifle is a specific shooting dicipline under the DCRA and (ususally) PRAs (Milcun being an exception that I know of.
For the record - I am a fan of Military Rifle shooting as wall as SR.
You are correct - the course of fire is limited in the range layout and limited use of such - so not SR insofar as the DCRA is concerned.
The CDTSA does have new lands for a range that will hopefully be coming on-line in the next year or two that could conceivably see a modification of that course of fire to more closely align with a DCRA/ PWT type course of fire - entirely dependant on what the membership wants of course. What the CDTSA lacks in it's current range, they make up for in their attitude and treatment toward other shooters (civility & courtesy).
Despite a range lacking in ideal physical attributes for run downs, an apathetic member body who don't know what goes on in the organization (couldn't care less apparently) and internal political vitriol hell bent on seeing the CSRA's demise, While organizing SR with the APRA, we had a fairly large demand and excellent turnout for the military 'battle rifle' shoots we had.
Same with the CQB shoots we were introducing, as well as the SR program we were trying to grow and the 3-gun that were in the planning stages.
Not sure why anyone would want to subject themselves to the BS the APRA currently has to offer, but hopefully newer members like Harbl can wrest control of the wheel house from the current executive that clearly have their heads up their rear ends.
Hi Brad .. when is the meeting ??
Originally Posted by Heauton
Reading the posts about the “Calgary Service Rifle Association” situation one wonders why anyone would welcome these guys into a gun club. As it is a small group of past CSRA members submitting these posts, they keep attempting to pass the buck and blame everyone else for the position they are in. Most of these posts are from the folks who were in change of the CSRA in the past or presently portray themselves to be in charge. To date the Past president of CSRA has refused to publicly say (I am Sorry) and pay back the funds taken from the CSRA treasury.
In fact one could view the action of the “Small Group” is actually covering up the missing funds for the past president. An example of this cover up is by not communicating the financial statements to the membership. Several of the past members of CSRA have asked some of the posters in this thread to share the financial statements. Why has this fallen on deaf ears? As well there have been no meetings for the CSRA general membership to attend to question the present CSRA management about the financial statements, again for the five years in question. The current executive has to hold themselves accountable and admit there were grave errors by the past management team of the CSRA! For the past several years CSRA members have had full access to the APRA facility at Homestead yet the executives of CSRA have forwarded very little of the APRA funds they collected to the APRA. Why should one have sympathy for those whiners who feel they have been treated so badly by the APRA? Posts by these people on this forum disrespects the hard work of the APRA board, as well does little to promote the shooting sports on this forum.
What about the CSRA missing money?
To Quote a past CSRA Member:
“I'm a one year member who really does not want to make trouble but I'm having a hard time remaining quiet. It's been more than four months since the December meeting. I don't feel like this club will ever be reinstated at this rate. I think a lot of people are overlooking some fairly obvious things here.
If the APRA is correct and approximately two and half years’ worth of dues have not been paid and the club has roughly eighty members per year the actual amount owing to the APRA is more like $20,000. Roughly an equivalent amount of club money should also have been collected. At the December meeting we were told that only about $3000 was in the account. Where is the rest of it? I think that's a fair question nobody seems to be asking.
The membership is partly responsible for what's happened. It's a club and has to be run like one. That means meetings. Minutes, old business, new business and treasurers report. Not holding them or attending them contributed to the problem. The issue should have been discovered much sooner. Membership lists, bank statements and receipts should account for all of the money. It's called bookkeeping. The fact that they are not complete and the club is unsure about its numbers validates the APRA's position that it is not a legitimate club. Asking the APRA to provide them is ridiculous.
I'm not certain but generally the books and bank statements are open to all members of a club for review. I for one would like to see them. This is very basic accounting. One source of revenue, membership. Payments to APRA and money spent on club activities, supplies are the expenditures. Anyone who has ever been self-employed has done more complicated books than this”
End of Quote.
So Acting CSRA President and CSRA Vice President – what have you done?
Has there been corporate filings of the association, or is the association is still delist in the province of Alberta? Have you had meetings, minutes of these meetings, old business, and new business and treasurers’ reports? Has CRSA put together a group that has the proper credentials and presents themselves to the APRA in a businesslike manner? Has the present group worked in a constructive manner to restore confidence with the APRA? But sad to say, some of these past directors are still in control! So the poor business practises of the past management, continues. One gets the impression that some of these past board members of CSRA just want the club to dissolve and this "problem" to go away. The APRA has the right to know how many members of the CSRA paid their APRA dues through the CSRA and receive this past due amount. Has the “Small Group” paid the past due membership to the APRA? The members of the CSRA have a right to know what happened with all of “their” money.
So no “Drama”, CSRA Management, just answer the questions above.
Originally Posted by Heauton
Reading the posts about the “Calgary Service Rifle Association” situation one wonders why anyone would welcome these guys into a gun club. As it is a small group of past CSRA members submitting these posts, they keep attempting to pass the buck and blame everyone else for the position they are in. Most of these posts are from the folks who were in change of the CSRA in the past or presently portray themselves to be in charge. To date the Past president of CSRA has refused to publicly say (I am Sorry) and pay back the funds taken from the CSRA treasury.
In fact one could view the action of the “Small Group” is actually covering up the missing funds for the past president. An example of this cover up is by not communicating the financial statements to the membership. Several of the past members of CSRA have asked some of the posters in this thread to share the financial statements. Why has this fallen on deaf ears? As well there have been no meetings for the CSRA general membership to attend to question the present CSRA management about the financial statements, again for the five years in question. The current executive has to hold themselves accountable and admit there were grave errors by the past management team of the CSRA! For the past several years CSRA members have had full access to the APRA facility at Homestead yet the executives of CSRA have forwarded very little of the APRA funds they collected to the APRA. Why should one have sympathy for those whiners who feel they have been treated so badly by the APRA? Posts by these people on this forum disrespects the hard work of the APRA board, as well does little to promote the shooting sports on this forum.
What about the CSRA missing money?
To Quote a past CSRA Member:
“I'm a one year member who really does not want to make trouble but I'm having a hard time remaining quiet. It's been more than four months since the December meeting. I don't feel like this club will ever be reinstated at this rate. I think a lot of people are overlooking some fairly obvious things here.
If the APRA is correct and approximately two and half years’ worth of dues have not been paid and the club has roughly eighty members per year the actual amount owing to the APRA is more like $20,000. Roughly an equivalent amount of club money should also have been collected. At the December meeting we were told that only about $3000 was in the account. Where is the rest of it? I think that's a fair question nobody seems to be asking.
The membership is partly responsible for what's happened. It's a club and has to be run like one. That means meetings. Minutes, old business, new business and treasurers report. Not holding them or attending them contributed to the problem. The issue should have been discovered much sooner. Membership lists, bank statements and receipts should account for all of the money. It's called bookkeeping. The fact that they are not complete and the club is unsure about its numbers validates the APRA's position that it is not a legitimate club. Asking the APRA to provide them is ridiculous.
I'm not certain but generally the books and bank statements are open to all members of a club for review. I for one would like to see them. This is very basic accounting. One source of revenue, membership. Payments to APRA and money spent on club activities, supplies are the expenditures. Anyone who has ever been self-employed has done more complicated books than this”
End of Quote.
So Acting CSRA President and CSRA Vice President – what have you done?
Has there been corporate filings of the association, or is the association is still delist in the province of Alberta? Have you had meetings, minutes of these meetings, old business, and new business and treasurers’ reports? Has CRSA put together a group that has the proper credentials and presents themselves to the APRA in a businesslike manner? Has the present group worked in a constructive manner to restore confidence with the APRA? But sad to say, some of these past directors are still in control! So the poor business practises of the past management, continues. One gets the impression that some of these past board members of CSRA just want the club to dissolve and this "problem" to go away. The APRA has the right to know how many members of the CSRA paid their APRA dues through the CSRA and receive this past due amount. Has the “Small Group” paid the past due membership to the APRA? The members of the CSRA have a right to know what happened with all of “their” money.
So no “Drama”, CSRA Management, just answer the questions above.
We have gone through your first post in this thread in lengthy detail before in another (now locked) thread.
I'm not going to address it here, but suffice to say it is all largely B/S.
The interim CSRA body tasked with resolving the issues stated unequivocally, on several occasions, we were determined and committed to resolve all of the issues to the satisfaction of the APRA. I am unaware how it could get plainer than that.
My actions have been consistent with uncovering the truth both within the CSRA and the APRA. That has not changed to this date.
We brought out as much detail as what was documented. The APRA to date has brought NONE. No proof, no documentation. That says a lot.
My duties as VP were limited to match organization and APRA executive meetings - that is not to say that I disagree with you and the entire CSRA membership is responsible for the affairs of the club (much in the same way the entire APRA membership body is responsible for their executive body), so we made the commitment to resolving all of the issues as stated above.
Anyone, be it past member of CSRA or current APRA member, if they question the voracity of my statements, they are welcome to review all of the information I have in my possession.
I'm not going to address it here, but suffice to say it is all largely B/S.
The interim CSRA body tasked with resolving the issues stated unequivocally, on several occasions, we were determined and committed to resolve all of the issues to the satisfaction of the APRA. I am unaware how it could get plainer than that.
My actions have been consistent with uncovering the truth both within the CSRA and the APRA. That has not changed to this date.
We brought out as much detail as what was documented. The APRA to date has brought NONE. No proof, no documentation. That says a lot.
My duties as VP were limited to match organization and APRA executive meetings - that is not to say that I disagree with you and the entire CSRA membership is responsible for the affairs of the club (much in the same way the entire APRA membership body is responsible for their executive body), so we made the commitment to resolving all of the issues as stated above.
Anyone, be it past member of CSRA or current APRA member, if they question the voracity of my statements, they are welcome to review all of the information I have in my possession.
Yup, they closed it down before I could say all the replys are B.S.
As vice president, you were to manage in the day-to-day operations of CSRA, help formulate the group’s long-range plan, work out issues as they arise, and participate in executive board discussions and decision making. Didn’t you co-sign all the checks that CSRA paid out?.
We went over this. Over and over again. You are either not listening or you simply are not comprehending.
- We went through the last 3 years as that was all that was documented (and documented poorly).
- We made conservative assumptions (to the benefit of the APRA) where we did not have documentation.
- The CSRA made payments of APRA dues to the APRA but likely, based on the accounting, that was not complete.
- We made commitment to pay any and all back-dues that were not paid by our President (who was elected and tasked with treasurer duties) to the satisfaction of the APRA.
- The APRA treasurer is tasked with accounting for all APRA memberships sold and all booklets assigned to the individual disciplines per year. If it came down to it, the APRA Treasurer could assume conservatively all books (and memberships within) given to the CSRA within the year were used to their completion, or they could simply deduct other discipline's memberships sold from those accounted and assign the remainder to the CSRA - either way, we agreed to any number the APRA assigned.
- The APRA committee was not satisfied with the only accounting the CSRA had so we turned it all over to them.
I did not have signing authority on our bank accounts. The Treasurer's position was left to the President.
No one within the former CSRA is arguing that in hindsight the CSRA club was run poorly, or that there could have been better accounting.
I accept that I should not have deferred duties to the club President alone, and I and others within the club made apologies and commitments to the APRA and to the CSRA membership to right all of those wrongs.
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Post the Pictures of the Checks you paid
I'll type this out very slow for Brad to understand:
2011- How Much ? Show check(s)
2010- How Much ? Show check(s)
2009- How Much ? Show check(s)
2008- How Much ? Show check(s)
2007- How Much ? Show check(s)
So when is Wayne aka Savage paying back the money owed to CSRA?
If you and Brad don't call a meeting to show the books to the past membership then all this blah blah blah is just a BIG coverup !
You sing the same old song - Brads Last Post on the "Closed Post" was just blah blah blah didn't answer anything Just blah blah blah
You say that CSRA Paid - a person I talked to at APRA said that you didn't You say you have all the facts and paper work, then just put the images up of the checks you sent into the APRA -
I'll type this out very slow for Brad to understand:
2011- How Much ? Show check(s)
2010- How Much ? Show check(s)
2009- How Much ? Show check(s)
2008- How Much ? Show check(s)
2007- How Much ? Show check(s)
So when is Wayne aka Savage paying back the money owed to CSRA?
If you and Brad don't call a meeting to show the books to the past membership then all this blah blah blah is just a BIG coverup !
This is very helpful and constructive. Thank-you.
- At the very outset the APRA asked for accounting from the CSRA and assured CSRA members they would assist with the accurate accounting from the APRA's end (because we all know the APRA's books accounting of the membership books were not perfect - as documented in APRA exec. Meeting minutes).
- CSRA made a summary of that accounting available to the APRA committee - send me an email account and I'll forward a copy.
- The APRA was to come back and 'fill in the blanks' - Other than indicating to the CSRA that the accounting did not go back far enough, the APRA has not come back with any other information to either add or refute our numbers.
- As that put us at loggerheads, All of the CSRA's accounting was turned over to the APRA.
That is a good question - you should be asking him.
The CSRA has not covered up anything. The APRA on the other hand had done their best to sweep all of it under the carpet.
A member of our executive has allegedly stolen funds from both the APRA and the CSRA. The APRA chose to lock all members and the club out, and refused to advance any form of resolution to the issues so the club went under.
Why would I arrange for a meeting for a club that does not exist? If past members really want the meeting minutes or financials from 2010, they should have made those AGMs that were held after the APRA AGMs.
If they want a summary or any other docs of dealings with the APRA since november of 2011 they can send an email.
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Re. Back to topic. 3 Gun Shoots. I'm sure by now everyone has heard CTDA(Shepard) has bought 160 acres near Milo for a new range. It is currently being staked out and will offer several ranges. Road should go in soon. May have up to a 500m rifle range and a few others along with half a dozen pistol bays. no reason why they can't hold 3 gun shoots as long as someone does the work putting on the Matches. Unfortunately we won't be shooting there till next year. All approvals with the CFO and the County are in place. Should be fun. 45 minutes south of Calgary.
