Can I ?

OK, The rules that govern Powder and primer sales require that the Licensed dealer record the Name, Address, amount bought and proof that the buyer is over 18.
Some stores elect to use the PAL/RPAL for this.

ERDRegs4.jpg


From the Explosives act Regulations:

120. (1) Except as provided in sections 120.1 and 120.2, no person shall knowingly sell any explosive to a person who

(a) is under 18 years of age; or

(b) appears to be under 18 years of age and does not produce evidence that he is 18 years of age or older.

(2) For the purposes of this section, “explosive” does not include

(a) caps for toy guns included in Subdivision 1 of Division 2 of Class 7 fireworks; or

(b) pyrotechnic distress signals or lifesaving devices that fall within the description of any class of explosives set out in Part I.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cr/C.R.C.-c.599/bo-ga:l_X//en#anchorbo-ga:l_X
 
Just to settle the dust a bit...The purchasing of components is covered by the "criminal Act" I copied this wee bit of info.

Obtaining Ammunition

You need a valid firearms licence to obtain ammunition. As defined in the Criminal Code: "ammunition" means "a cartridge containing a projectile designed to be discharged from a firearm and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a caseless cartridge and a shot shell." The definition does not include loose black powder and shot used in muzzleloaders. Black powder is regulated primarily under the Explosives Act, which is administered by Natural Resources Canada (NRCAN). Check with NRCAN or refer to the Explosives Act for any requirements applying to the purchase of loose black powder.
 
Ammunition refers to cartridges. Components are not cartridges. Don't read things into the legislation that are not there. If a store requires that you produce a PAL to purchase components, that is their own policy not a legal requirement, so you might want to consider shopping elsewhere.
 
If you're in Ontario or Quebec, there's a good chance you'll be asked for your PAL to purchase powder.


Or not...
Maybe some of youz guys look kinda shifty ;)

I'll routinely walk outta my suplier of choice with hundreds of dollars worth of primers/powder etc and the only thing I have to give 'em is my mon-ay.
 
....why would a person buy components for reloading if they did not already have the gun?????? What harm is it to ask "do you have a PAL" as these articles can be used in covert ways by those that have illegal guns and no PAL...thus cannot buy "store bought ammo". I certainly take no offence of being asked by the store employees. Reloads can kill you as fast as premade.
 
....why would a person buy components for reloading if they did not already have the gun?????? What harm is it to ask "do you have a PAL" as these articles can be used in covert ways by those that have illegal guns and no PAL...thus cannot buy "store bought ammo". I certainly take no offence of being asked by the store employees. Reloads can kill you as fast as premade.

Because sometimes its handy if a non-shooting friend or member of the family can pick up the supplies you need if you are unable to get to the store. For example, I live about a thousand miles from the closest gun shop. If I know someone is going south, I often ask them to pick me up reloading components. Lets not make this more complicated then it needs to be. Our laws are draconian enough without adding to the problem, plus as I pointed out, there are times when those outside the firearms community have a lawful requirement for these products.
 
Because sometimes its handy???????

In answer to your question why would anyone buy components for a firearm they did not own, yes its particularly "handy" if someone other than the gun owner wishes to purchase reloading components for a 3rd party. If we take this a step farther, do you think you should have to produce your firearm registration before you could purchase cartridge specific components? No .30 caliber rifle??? No .308 bullets for you!! You have a .222, then you don't need Re-25!! No shotgun registration, then you don't need #209 primers!!

Lets consider another dangerous product. Gasoline is bought without concern for the end use of the product. You do not have to drive to the gas station, produce a driver's license, or even show proof of age. All you need is dollars and a jerry can. Once you leave the gas station, you can pour the gas into your car's gas tank, fill up the lawn mower, or soak a rag and sniff it. How you use or abuse the product is not a concern at the point of sale, nor should there be a concern over how reloading components are used when you get to the check-out counter.
 
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The stores do not have access to the list of firearms anyone has. Thus why would they ever ask what guns you possess. "handy" does not make it legal nor responsible. If on the trip back to where you reside, the shipment goes missing or damage occurs, WHO is responsible?


If I wish to buy supplies for what might be a fictitious person, how would the store know. Thus the supplies can be traced to specific buyer.
 
The stores do not have access to the list of firearms anyone has. Thus why would they ever ask what guns you possess. "handy" does not make it legal nor responsible. If on the trip back to where you reside, the shipment goes missing or damage occurs, WHO is responsible?


If I wish to buy supplies for what might be a fictitious person, how would the store know. Thus the supplies can be traced to specific buyer.

Why indeed! It makes no more sense for the store to know what firearm you are purchasing the components for than it does for them to know if you actually purchasing components for a yourself or for someone else. Perhaps the components are being bought for a lawful non-firearms related activity, in which case the purchaser would be unable to purchase the product that he had a lawful requirement for. In a free country that makes little sense. Hell, I still don't know why we need a firearms license. We never had them before '79, and society has become a lot more dangerous since we've had them. Its none of the stores business, if the purchaser has a PAL when the purchase is for other than a firearm or ammunition as required by law.

Just for the heck of it, have you ever considered if the clerks at those stores have to pass a security clearance. What happens to the PAL numbers they record. Now and then we hear about store clerks who use credit card numbers for their own gain. You might have a whole bunch of guns registered to you that you know nothing about, simply because you gave up your firearms license number too readily when purchasing components.

The carrier is responsible for any missing or damaged shipments, regardless of the destination, provided the declaration is correct and the labeling is correct. I would prefer to have the box unmarked, but the law requires placards, so that how you do it. The shipment could be going to a large urban center or is could be going to a small remote community. Thus it could be a trucking company, a railroad, or an airline, that is responsible or it could be a courier company that uses any of those other companies to deliver their shipments, that is responsible for the shipment. That does not change with the nature of the goods being shipped.

As I said earlier, there is no legal requirement for the store to ask to see a Firearms License prior to the purchase of goods other than ammunition or firearms. Components are not ammunition.

How does the store know if the purchase you make of 30' of hemp rope is for you or for a fictitious person? Why would they care if the law doesn't require them the track the sale of hemp rope? Yet if a store's policy was to see photo-ID prior to a cash sale, when it was not required by law, how much more rope would you buy there? I'd probably leave it right there at the till and buy my rope across the street. Same with components.
 
The Cabelas and SIR mail order form from thier catalogue states on the back that components require a PAL. It is thier policy and required by law. the word "ammunition" does cover components. What may I ask would be a "lawful non-firearms related activity"?that you would buy components for?

What can the clerk do with your pal number. Every time, I am asked to see the plastic card...not asked what the number is. It cannot be used to register weapons nor buy any....a lot more info is asked than just the number for registration.

For instance your friend does not package it right and powder escapes causing concern, perhaps fire.....would you step up to the plate. I know I would not ask my friends to take that chance. Order thru phone or mail and follow thier requirements , then the shipper and carrier is totally responsible for packaging and damaged goods and for any happenings until delivered to you.

"Components are not ammunition"....not in the spelling sense..no...but why is it necessary then for a person to be over 18 to buy cigarettes as well as pouch or can tobacco and show ID....after all they are components as well. alcohol is also a component in drinks..should just any aged person be able to buy it?

As for the gas issue....we do not have to show ID but to carry it away for "the lawn mower".... we have to have a required certified can.......????Makes ya wonder.

Also the store across the street should be asking the same questions....if they are indeed lax in this, all it would take is one incident to get compliance.

This has been a great discussion and we should be trying to follow the rules and regs rather than trying to skirt the issues. I do not like it any better than many of you guys...but it is there and we as a country have it very lax compared to a lot of other European countries. Flip the card and observe the rules and we may never have any more "additions" than we already have.
 
The Cabelas and SIR mail order form from thier catalogue states on the back that components require a PAL. It is thier policy and required by law. the word "ammunition" does cover components. What may I ask would be a "lawful non-firearms related activity"?that you would buy components for?

What can the clerk do with your pal number. Every time, I am asked to see the plastic card...not asked what the number is. It cannot be used to register weapons nor buy any....a lot more info is asked than just the number for registration.

For instance your friend does not package it right and powder escapes causing concern, perhaps fire.....would you step up to the plate. I know I would not ask my friends to take that chance. Order thru phone or mail and follow thier requirements , then the shipper and carrier is totally responsible for packaging and damaged goods and for any happenings until delivered to you.

"Components are not ammunition"....not in the spelling sense..no...but why is it necessary then for a person to be over 18 to buy cigarettes as well as pouch or can tobacco and show ID....after all they are components as well. alcohol is also a component in drinks..should just any aged person be able to buy it?

As for the gas issue....we do not have to show ID but to carry it away for "the lawn mower".... we have to have a required certified can.......????Makes ya wonder.

Also the store across the street should be asking the same questions....if they are indeed lax in this, all it would take is one incident to get compliance.

This has been a great discussion and we should be trying to follow the rules and regs rather than trying to skirt the issues. I do not like it any better than many of you guys...but it is there and we as a country have it very lax compared to a lot of other European countries. Flip the card and observe the rules and we may never have any more "additions" than we already have.

Blaster's sometimes use #209 primers for firing shock tube initiated blasts. Cartridge collectors are not neccesarily firearms owners. These are two examples of people who would have a lawful purpose for purchasing components and who might not have a firearms license.

Components are in the approved packaging at the time of sale. The store that sells the components recieved them in that packaging. I don't #### around shipping components illegally, when I have them shipped the manefest describes the contents and the sticker identifies what the hazard is. I agree we should follow the rules, but we should not go out of our way to exceed what the rules require or demand that tougher ones be imposed. If a dealer wishes to exceed the legal requirement we should be asking why. If we fail to do so, it won't be long before European styled regulations strangle us.
 
Blasters would buy from an explosive warehouse not a firearm outlet...if the explosive warehouse runs short, they may buy from a store but highly unlikely. they get a much better price from thier supplier.
Cartridge collectors would not likely buy retail in boxes of 20. Most collectible casings are obsolete and not available retail.

i agree that components are in approved containers at the store but when repacked by a friend,....who knows if they do it right? The shipper is responsible to see it is packed safely and to standards as well as labelled. If a friend is repacking and not labelling it correctly ( buses will not ship guns nor component powders..... Airlines?????)
 
I just wanted to say that, even if you are able to come across cases, bullets, powder and primers, its illegal to possess ammunition w/o a PAL.

Thus if you actually put together a cartridge, I believe you would be breaking the law 'possessing ammunition w/o a PAL' .. no?
 
Forget SIR (Cabela's) policies, drive 2 minutes northwest, and go to a real store. Wholesale has NEVER asked me for anything other than $$$ for components. I'm probably one of the shiftiest looking guys who shops there too, so that's got nothing to with it. Except for the 1st time I went into SIR to buy my first 2 guns, I've been treated like SHISE every time I've walked in there. Wholesale has gotten over 90% of my locally spent dollars, due to that very fact.
 
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