If you are doing a Bolt anyhow just use a 460 Weatherby and down load it to where ever you want it. I load mine all the way from trapdoor 45-70 350 cast and 245 grain jacketed to truly thunderous 600 grain solids. As much recoil as you can handle, it will produce and as gentle as you want it, it will do also. Trail Boss, 4759 and 4895 all make great lower velocity loads that still have all the thump required for anything you will hunt here.
Canada Ready Big Bore Rifle Build
- Thread starter conor_90
- Start date
I have had a 458wm, 458 Lott, 450 ackley mag, and multiple 45-70's. I still have a 45-70, and am working on something similar as we speak. When hunting with my 45-70 I have never once thought, "I wish I had more gun(458) for this" however when I hunted with my 458 I often thought "I wish I had my lighter, handier 45-70". For the game I hunt here I personally think the 45-70 (450 marlin/458 American) is perfect for a bigger bore. But that's me....
I once met a guy who shot a .460 weatherby, he was a hunting guide and said it was a great round for hippos...
Not my cup of tea.
The apparent need for a stronger caliber than the .458 win for African hunting is evidenced by the Lott and Weatherby I guess.
Looking at the hodgon loads for 45/70 in modern rifles and .458 and there does not seem to be a lot of difference between the max 45/70 load and the softer full house load using powders likes 30/31. I'm amicable to that and can't see a reason to used reduced powder charge for those loads.
Good post Double gun. I owned a 45/70 for a short time and often thought "I wish this was as light as my 30/30", ended up selling it and my 30/30. They will be replaced someday with the 16 inch 454 casull rossi hopefully.
Not my cup of tea.
The apparent need for a stronger caliber than the .458 win for African hunting is evidenced by the Lott and Weatherby I guess.
Looking at the hodgon loads for 45/70 in modern rifles and .458 and there does not seem to be a lot of difference between the max 45/70 load and the softer full house load using powders likes 30/31. I'm amicable to that and can't see a reason to used reduced powder charge for those loads.
Good post Double gun. I owned a 45/70 for a short time and often thought "I wish this was as light as my 30/30", ended up selling it and my 30/30. They will be replaced someday with the 16 inch 454 casull rossi hopefully.
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I can't imagine the price of brass having anything at all to do with this type of a conversation. The brass is good for at least 20 firings and if they are all reduced loads will last 40. Fifty brass with last most guys an entire lifetime. I have never thought of MORE capacity as a handicap. I can load a 350 grain Jacketed Hornady anywhere from 1600 FPS to 2800 FPS. At the lower end I use about the same number of grains of powder as I do in my 45-70s, just not the same powder of course.
I also load round balls for grouse and cast for cheap linking. I don't find the 460 any more work to load for than the 458 or the 45-70s I have. If I was however looking for a fast handling, short barreled light weight gun the 460 isn't it. A 458 that fits that description is going to kick a fair amount. I had a 7 lb, 22" 45-70 Double rifle and that is too light for robust loads to be pleasant to shoot.
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- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Couldn't agree more. The fun with big bores is knowing that it don't take a pile of velocity to do the jobfor targets or game.
The reference to a .458 American twigged my interest in this thread, I too thought that would be an ideal big bore for close-range brush hunting, short action, short barrel etc. However, I had an idea that using the same philosophy with a slightly smaller diameter bore size might make the completed project a little more versatile. Into the Wildcat Cartridges of the World book I went, and found a reference to a .416x2", also known as the 10.6x51. Long story short, I now have a .416x2" built on a Remington M660 action, with a heavy sporter Montana Rifleworks barrel. 300gr. Barnes at 2250fps, 400gr Hornady's at 1800. As with any wildcat, there is a bit of bother making cases but the supply of magnum cases to make them is endless and I had CH4D make me a set of dies for a reasonable price. Just another option of many to consider....
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Cutlass above mentioned that one, I have to ask a big why? Somebody shortened the already limited .458 Win case by a 1/4" to accomplish what exactly...
It's so peculiar it's fascinating.^ yeah I have also been trying to figure it out.
To fit a x57 actions was my first thought, but it doesn't really add up.
Does anyone own the Zastava full stock .458 win? Curious if they were a part of the recent run of Zastavas.
Looking on South African and "Safari Guy" gun forums it seems to be popular to "add weight" to these rifles. Guessing this means a mercury recoil reducer. They are lighter than most .458 WM rifles it appears, is this a 5.5 lb shotgun, 6.5 pound 338 WM kind of situation? I wonder if one more gun would be enough to learn my lesson on light weight heavy recoiling guns...
D-Man, please post some pictures for us if possible.
Still curious if someone can weigh in on the .444 Marlin p-14.
To fit a x57 actions was my first thought, but it doesn't really add up.
Does anyone own the Zastava full stock .458 win? Curious if they were a part of the recent run of Zastavas.
Looking on South African and "Safari Guy" gun forums it seems to be popular to "add weight" to these rifles. Guessing this means a mercury recoil reducer. They are lighter than most .458 WM rifles it appears, is this a 5.5 lb shotgun, 6.5 pound 338 WM kind of situation? I wonder if one more gun would be enough to learn my lesson on light weight heavy recoiling guns...
D-Man, please post some pictures for us if possible.
Still curious if someone can weigh in on the .444 Marlin p-14.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There's always the cheap way, lead shot in a drilled hole in the butt, easy to add a couple pounds. Never handled the full stock but I used a .458 Zastava briefly as a loner in Africa. It's rough around the edges and reliable.
buckbrushoutdoors
Regular
- Location
- fort saskatchewan AB/Edson AB
I have been tempted many times with buying a zastava in 458, but I cannot get past that god awful piece of wood on it would have to throw a laminate on for it to be functional in my opinion
Cutlass above mentioned that one, I have to ask a big why? Somebody shortened the already limited .458 Win case by a 1/4" to accomplish what exactly...
This! Some cartridges just make a guy ask "huh?" As there seems to be no useful point to its creation. The 223 was one of those if you ask me. What was wrong with the 222 or 222 mag?!? And for some reason, other than cost, people thinks it's a superior cartridge for......what? Now the 223 has cheap ammo, and this is NOW the only reason to own one, but the chopped down 458 won't ever get to that status, unless the US military adopts it, then everyone will be raving about how "awesome" it is. Lol
^strange diversion
The US military is apparently interested enough in something along the lines of this thread for it to be illegal to import .45 raptor components and brass...
Ardent did the Zastava (all personal recoil tolerance aside) kick like a mule?
The US military is apparently interested enough in something along the lines of this thread for it to be illegal to import .45 raptor components and brass...
Ardent did the Zastava (all personal recoil tolerance aside) kick like a mule?
I make 222 brass from LC 5.56 brass, or any decent 223 brass, one single pass through the FL die using sizing wax. Trim, load!! So, what does the 223 offer a reloader over the 222? Just trying to enlighten a little, that's all. Food for thought!!!
If you reload, it changes the game completely.
Back on topic, just read my signature and you'll see my opinion, lol.
The us did use a 458 in veitnam for subsonic sniping I've read
However a cut down 458wm is basically a hot loaded 45/70 for a bolt action and for some that's enough. Not everyone wants the 450 marlin with only Hornady brass
A 350 or 405 gr at 1900-2100 fps works for north American game.
Personally I like the 458wm but I'd be interested in a 2" version as well
However a cut down 458wm is basically a hot loaded 45/70 for a bolt action and for some that's enough. Not everyone wants the 450 marlin with only Hornady brass
A 350 or 405 gr at 1900-2100 fps works for north American game.
Personally I like the 458wm but I'd be interested in a 2" version as well
