Canada's WWII-era pistols dangerously unreliable - News Article 10/12/ '18
- Thread starter Brookwood
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We went from a REAL battle rifle in a REAL battle calibre to the current rifle. Now we want to dump the all-steel HP because it's too heavy and our armourer's don't know how to make them work reliably?
We surely live in a 'throw-away' world. There is never enough money to do it right the first time, but always enough to do it again, and again, and again ..... and never get what we really need or want.
We surely live in a 'throw-away' world. There is never enough money to do it right the first time, but always enough to do it again, and again, and again ..... and never get what we really need or want.
As long as political terms are finite, and accountability nil, unfortunately, we will continue as you stated.
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No we want to dump the high power because it doesn't work. Not with rhe crap old mags, not with the new mags. It's a tired old pile that needs to be sent of to the grave.
Lets not forget the capacity shortfall of the hi power(13vs15-18) compared to more modern offerings on top of its reliability shortfalls. And if you can have something more reliable, with a higher capacity, and at a lighter weight, why would you not choose it?
Drop the tired charade of "REAL" rifles and calibres. The c8 and 556 works just fine.
Can't make #### work if there's no parts. Same reason we finally replaced the Lee Enfields with the Rangers.
Last time I inspected the BHP's at work; 1 in 10 was an unserviceable barrel. Only about 10 of the 100 magazines (non-Belgian) still had serviceable springs.
I was more than pleased for the brief time we had P226's in the vault.
There is a similar conversation going on in the political Articles forum .....
So, ALL Inglis HPs don't/won't work with even new mags ..... ? Really? That's quite a bold statement backed up by ..... ?
As far as calibre effectiveness goes, 7.62 vs 5.56 is a no brainer. You can take on most game animals up to large bears with the 7.62, which is less than half a step behind the .30-'06 which has taken Grizzlies and much African game . I don't know anyone shooting the 5.56 at anything other than coyotes.
Oh, I forget - the weight factor. Didn't seem to bother the US soldiers who used it in the sand box because - wait for it - it worked when the 5.56 failed.
So, ALL Inglis HPs don't/won't work with even new mags ..... ? Really? That's quite a bold statement backed up by ..... ?
As far as calibre effectiveness goes, 7.62 vs 5.56 is a no brainer. You can take on most game animals up to large bears with the 7.62, which is less than half a step behind the .30-'06 which has taken Grizzlies and much African game . I don't know anyone shooting the 5.56 at anything other than coyotes.
Oh, I forget - the weight factor. Didn't seem to bother the US soldiers who used it in the sand box because - wait for it - it worked when the 5.56 failed.
Barrels and springs are easily replaced items. I put BarSto barrels in both my commercial HPs.
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A huge bulk of them are experiencing failures with new mags as well as old mags yes. Are you deliberately being thick here suggesting it's acceptable to send soldiers into the sandbox with some semi functional equipment or do you have that little regard for current service members?
And glad you can drop bears with 08... i didnt realize we were facing a bear insurgency... but we'll be sure to appoint you as the rogue bear handler sme if it comes to it... and 556 didn't fail. The piss poor marksmanship standards failed.
And congrats on that barsto barrel install. How about if you install them in all the service guns... and then they perform on par... oh wait they are still overweight amd undercapacitied. Then again we have the bear handler sme seal of approval that these are reliable durable items that will handle the rigors of military use... i mean you have tested them thoroughly to ensure they function well right?
Funny, don't see too many articles about hunters getting in prolonged firefights with the animal that they're hunting. You're comparing apples to oranges. 5.56mm is just fine for shooting at other people. Saying '7.62 or nothing' is keyboard warrior talk. And we still employ 7.62x51mm in C6's (GPMGs, pintles and coaxs), C3 (which is being phased out and only used as a training rifle so far as I know), and various DMRs trialled over the years.
But we are getting off topic. The Hi Power should be replaced for no other reason than there are newer, lighter, more reliable, more ergonomic, more shooter intuitive platforms out there. Not to mention that the vast majority of the Hi Power fleet is failing.
But we are getting off topic. The Hi Power should be replaced for no other reason than there are newer, lighter, more reliable, more ergonomic, more shooter intuitive platforms out there. Not to mention that the vast majority of the Hi Power fleet is failing.
If you had most of your pistols fail going into a competition, that's your fault for not making sure they were sorted out first.
The BHP isn't the problem. Old, worn out mags and old, worn out guns are the problems. The BHP is still as fantastic a pistol as the day the first one was made.
I took my own commercial mags on deployment, and took out the magazine safety. That and a bit of skateboard deck tape and it was a pistol I'd trust my life to in a heartbeat. Indeed, I did once. I don't recall ever having a stoppage or any other issue on workup training or deployment, only on unit ranges using old beat up guns and old beat up mags. Well... those weren't the pistols you took overseas. Both of mine for tour were so new they still had complete decals. Shame really to beat them up.
Just buying G17s off the shelf would be a perfect solution, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the venerable old BHP. I personally prefer it to a Glock, but at the same time accept that the G17 is much more well suited to being a general issue pistol
The BHP isn't the problem. Old, worn out mags and old, worn out guns are the problems. The BHP is still as fantastic a pistol as the day the first one was made.
I took my own commercial mags on deployment, and took out the magazine safety. That and a bit of skateboard deck tape and it was a pistol I'd trust my life to in a heartbeat. Indeed, I did once. I don't recall ever having a stoppage or any other issue on workup training or deployment, only on unit ranges using old beat up guns and old beat up mags. Well... those weren't the pistols you took overseas. Both of mine for tour were so new they still had complete decals. Shame really to beat them up.
Just buying G17s off the shelf would be a perfect solution, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the venerable old BHP. I personally prefer it to a Glock, but at the same time accept that the G17 is much more well suited to being a general issue pistol
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Couldnt have said it better !
BHP belong in museums or could be sold by the pound to cover the price of a new reliable service pistol. I'll take a Glock19x with my C8 please.
That's assuming a contract for new parts and service could be organized for decades on end. We all know that WE, the private user, can make these guns run, but the Green Machine needs a viable source of parts and service to draw from.
Whatever story gets the troops a modern lighter gun with a safe loaded chamber carry capability, decent sights and Ambi controls is a good thing.
As for the bhp, any machine used continuously for 75 years is going to have breakdowns. It doesn't mean a new bhp is a bad or unreliable gun, but I will say, the ones troops get currently are, in average, past end of life.
As for the bhp, any machine used continuously for 75 years is going to have breakdowns. It doesn't mean a new bhp is a bad or unreliable gun, but I will say, the ones troops get currently are, in average, past end of life.
Humans aren't bears. Quantity ABSOLUTELY trumps quality when it comes to ammo in a fire fight.
Have a read of the US light rifle trials report... a near miss is as absolutley as good as a hit to suppress the enemy, and the longer you can keep them suppressed to close with and destroy, the better. Lighter rifles and lighter ammo buys you more time in the firefight to maintain suppression. Infantry rifles haven't done the killing since the advent of indirect fire and machine guns... that's what does the killing. If you need to dump a single target at 300m, that's what a DMR is for. The idea of having much of a target to shoot at at all in a firefight is fantasy, the enemy doesn't just stand around in the open.
Dude. Comabt load weight is literally the defining problem for the infantry. There's reams and reams of studies about how modern soldiers are carrying too much. I can assure you that weight most certainly did bother all the soldiers that fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/weight-of-war-gear-that-protects-troops-also-injures-them/
https://legionmagazine.com/en/2018/05/rise-in-soldiers-loads-are-a-matter-of-life-and-death/
https://www.nrac.navy.mil/docs/2007_rpt_lightening_the_load.pdf
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UH6Ep3DSxE_91Pqz9CRuEw&bvm=bv.142059868,d.amc
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Well I think the BHP (properly maintained) is a very fine pistol and anyone that thinks we need a sidearm with greater capacity than the BHP has been mislead by guns and ammo and may have forgotten the purpose of a sidearm and why rifles and crew served weapons are issued. BUT to suggest that after almost 3/4 of a century of hard (and satisfactory) use of the BHP - its replacement is indicative of living in a ‘throw away’ world is a wee bit of a stretch. Despite the obvious economy - we are going to have a tough time convincing our guys and gals in uniform to go back to long bows and cauldrons of boiling tar.
I say get a factory direct volume discount on the Glock 17 .... slap down a Govt of Canada credit card and be done with it! If we had an enlightened government they could sell off the BHP’s in stocks today to Canadians for $350 apiece and pay for most of the Glock order
In the book by Clive Law, “Canadian Military Handguns “, there was a page or two about updating and modernize the BPH with a more comfortable grip, such as a Pachmayr or Hogue pistol grip, also upgrading the sights to give a faster and better sight picture in low light conditions, I don’t have the book anymore ,to give more details, this plan never took place and has been shelved many years back
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r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
So what about the hi power constitutes it having the perfect capacity?
It is asinine to suggest a greater capacity is not a greater asset. More rounds available is more options available, the end. Especially when it comes at a zero, maybe a negative weight penalty if running a lighter handgun. Sidearm or not having more options is never a bad thing. If anything having higher capacity mags might mean thats one less mag to carry freeing up real estate to put something else there... or simply running a more slick setup.
The bhp was excellent in ww2, and korea. At this point there are better options out there be it from a capacity, weight, ergonomics, and reliability standpoint.
I dont disagree with your buy glocks in bulk option. And they could sell the bottle openers for more than $350 a piece to be honest.
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