Canadian Antique Firearm Values (CGN Guide)

[Steppenwolf]

From my experience there are too many variables when dealing with each antique. There are two camps; those who buy and those who sell, each wants the opposite of the other. Blue book values are notorious for being off the mark. I would much rather have someone ask for a value after posting detailed photos of the firearm including all maker's marks and cartouches.

 

[Southlander]

...

 

[david doyle]

would much rather have someone ask for a value after posting detailed photos of the firearm including all maker's marks and cartouches.

Agreed. There is always lots of interest in the 'value' threads.

If you are not sure the other way to make sure the price is fair is to wait and see how long it takes to sell! Once you see a couple guns go in less then 10 views you 'll get an idea of what a good price is and watching the 15 BTT guns will give you other info. BUT just because a gun is'nt selling does'nt mean the price is off it just means that the tiny market which is CGN can't soak up the gun.

 

[762mm]

From my experience there are too many variables when dealing with each antique. There are two camps; those who buy and those who sell, each wants the opposite of the other. Blue book values are notorious for being off the mark. I would much rather have someone ask for a value after posting detailed photos of the firearm including all maker's marks and cartouches.

Yes, you are right about the price variations that can be encountered... but don't forget that in Canada, due to the lack of the second amendment & the inexistent rights to one's own property, antique prices are mostly based on a safe shooting condition and not cartouches or makers' hallmarks (that's been my observation up to this point).

Notice how commonly available guns in good shooting condition tend to fly off the EE shelves, whereas fine examples of truly collectible pieces (in lesser condition) tend to stay on a lot longer, sometimes being bumped dozens of times. Why? because Canadians want antiques that they can actually enjoy at the range. I don't have a single antique in an oddball caliber I can't reload for, because I find it'd be useless to have if you can't enjoy it. That has been the consensus with many other Canadian collectors I spoke to as well.

Like I said... the main idea was to give some direction about what people are willing to pay for a given model in a given condition. Special features, such as uncommon markings or historical value will undoubtfully bring a premium, however that's not the purpose of this guide (it's meant to cover the basics only). But let's face it: 95% of the guns in question are nothing special beyond their status. An insurance policy in case the Libs ever achieve their ultimate wet dream of a mass handgun ban & confiscation (collectors in England sure as hell saw it coming! Now they're the only ones left who still have handguns...).

Lets test it anyone who can offer or find me a "beauty" 455 mkI for 1300 dollars gets 1300 dollars and 762 gets 25 free 455 cases and a case of beer.

Mine's a reblued beauty with the cylinder cut to .45 ACP. Even though not really 100% "hardcore collector" grade, I bought it because it was fully functional, unpitted, had a good bore and could use readily available brass & cast bullets. If I could pick an uncut .455 or a cut .45ACP for the same price & condition, I would still go for the .45ACP (as would many others). Like I said, shooting condition and availability of reloading components are a priority in our Canadian reality (and not necessarily historical accuracy/originality). We can thank anti-gun zealots like Wendy for that.

 

[david doyle]

Mine's a reblued beauty with the cylinder cut to .45 ACP

ahhh yep it was priced right or a bit high, I'd pass on it at 1300 for sure. Again condition is everything. And as such description is everything. That same gun in original finish with the 455 cylinder would be worth siginifigantly more IMHO.

No direspect intended to your gun. My favorite webley is a bubba as well and my second favorite is an old reblue.

Check out some of Dingus's adds. He does'nt use 10 words to describe a gun he uses paragraphs. That is pretty much what it takes to describe an antique to the point where you can talk value with out 20 high res photos.

95% of the guns in question are nothing special beyond their status

ouch gonna disagree there and I am sure many others will also. If you right there is no reason not to make all our historic arms and collectibles into prohibs. Heck only 5% of us would have legitimate claim to grievience and the rest would just not be getting away with something any more.

What your saying is make a list to show how Cheap you can get an unregistered handgun which has no historical value and is only a way to pull one over on the man!

Thank goodness I have two banker boxes full of historical information related to the arms I choose to collect cause I'd hate to be found in the 95% camp.

BTW , IIRC correctly those english collectors with handguns in thier possesion will face a lengthy prison term if they are ever caught with a cartridge that fits the gun in thier possesion. They can either have a dewat and a cartridge or whole gun and no cartridges.

An insurance policy in case the Libs ever achieve their ultimate wet dream of a mass handgun ban & confiscation

But don't you think if anyone runs around confiscating handguns from legal owners they might think to pick up the 45 acp webleys as well? In a future Canada where handguns are verboten your possession of an antique 6 shooter will likely be in every bit as much jepordy as will the restricted owner's ruger. In such a case your 'insurance' handgun will just have insured you loose more financially then you would if you'd never bought it. I know that some people think like your saying but I don't see it as a good bet.

 

[fiscus]

When a gun is overpriced it usually doesn't sell; when the price is right it sells very fast.

 

[DEZ]

Well my MKII you definitely would not get for 1300.00 more like $2500.00 its Canadian marked uncut and in beautiful condition. Your best bet is to get a flayderman's guide and a standard catalog of firearms collector's price& reference guide. google antique firearms check out there pricing watch the EE. We have all paid too much from time to time its part of the learning process . I often pay on the higher side because I like to collect as well as shoot them on occasion and am willing to pay more for a better specimen. I would say 762mm has paid too much for something and is still feeling bitter l

 

[dingus]

Lets test it anyone who can offer or find me a "beauty" 455 mkI for 1300 dollars gets 1300 dollars and 762 gets 25 free 455 cases and a case of beer.

Hell its hard to get a "Decent" Webley outa the USA for $1300 By the time you pay shipping Taxes Ect.
Webleys on GB are going up over a grand alot now.
So i will second the case of beer and a some 455 cases

 

[DEZ]

When a gun is overpriced it usually doesn't sell; when the price is right it sells very fast.

This is what I mean supply and demand .also the economy plays into it alot of nice toys on the EE the last month or 2 . Most Webley MKI and MKII go from $1000.00 to $2900.00 depending on Condition the # of stars etc.

 

[david doyle]

# of stars etc

ahhhhhhhhhh precious wonderful stars.

 

[DEZ]

ahhhhhhhhhh precious wonderful stars.

LOL! a collector will try anything to make his piece sound more rare especially if its up for sale .

 

[david doyle]

DEZ, I agree with what you say regarding sales pithches but in the case of mkI mkII webleys an extra star means a whole bunch.

Both on the rarity front and on the completely different gun front!

 

[DEZ]

DEZ, I agree with what you say regarding sales pitches but in the case of mkI mkII webleys an extra star means a whole bunch.

Both on the rarity front and on the completely different gun front!

exactly some have been nitro proofed the next step they get new cylinders and barrels while this means nothing to some one who just wants a shooter this means a great deal to a collector who has a MKI and wants to get a MKI** etc.
If you are going to spend $2000.00 plus do abit of homework first. plenty of collectors hear to help you out .

 

[david doyle]

IIRC the first stars are for

New recoil shield
New hammer

Stars do not indicate nitro proofing. Nitro proofing as I understand it only occurred when they were surplused. (Could be incorrect I read it on the internet)

The coveted extra star is for the new barrel and cylinder I would think that would matter to shooters but apprently it does'nt seem to.

To get back on topic you point out that subtle variations can make a diffrence to the value of a gun either to shooters or collectors.

 

[Lima]

3. Commercial Webley MkI, cal .45acp/.45AutoRim, Excellent Condition, nitro-proof markings on frame, cylinder and barrel, all markings intact, gun appears to be professionally reblued. $1300

Apologies if this is a bit of an antique noob question but is this still 'classified antique' if the cylinder is cut for .45 ACP?

Reagrding Canadian market pricing, hypothetically, if you had two identical pistols, same age, same maker, same original un-molested condition and essentially identical except one was in an 'antique' caliber and the other classified restricted because of caliber. Is there a generally a % premium for the 'antique' pistol compared to the same thing if it were registered and restricted in Canada?

Thank you,

 

[david doyle]

yep still antique unless converted to a cartridge on 'the list'

yes for some antiques, calibre will influence price.

 

[DEZ]

Apologies if this is a bit of an antique noob question but is this still 'classified antique' if the cylinder is cut for .45 ACP?

Regarding Canadian market pricing, hypothetically, if you had two identical pistols, same age, same maker, same original un-molested condition and essentially identical except one was in an 'antique' caliber and the other classified restricted because of caliber. Is there a generally a % premium for the 'antique' pistol compared to the same thing if it were registered and restricted in Canada?

Thank you,

To the first yes still antique if cal not on no go list see sticky at the top of the page CFC Antique regs.

To the second absolutely there is a premium for those in the antique class . This can also be said for the US but there antique class is much bigger . There are fewer in Canada that meet our definition of antique so adds rarity to them which transfers into value .Remember alot of the antique pistols would be on the prohib. list if it wasn't for there antique status . even in the UK they can't shoot for the most part their antique pistols but were allowed to keep them .So this adds collector value here also even if restricteds become prohibs. under a different Gov. You will still have your antique pistols. They are in my mind just a safer investment. Ask yourself this 2 antique Colts SAA's of approximately the same value one is restricted because of cal. the other one is in 44 RUSSIAN or 450 Boxer which for the purpose of registration is deemed antique which would you prefer to own?

 

[david doyle]

You will still have your antique pistols. They are in my mind just a safer investment

Where does this idea come from???

 

[DEZ]

Where does this idea come from???

Just looking at what has happened in Great Britain as we follow there parliamentary system . They have a hand gun ban and collectors are still allowed antique hand guns all tho there definition is stricter than ours

 

[762mm]

Where does this idea come from???

Where from? From the fact that registration = confiscation. Always! How can you confiscate something when you don't know who is supposed to have it? It's the endless argument we've been using against socialist Liberal scum: the registry's only purpose is the confiscation of guns, not public safety!

You know.. in the aftermath of the 1995 witch hunt against gun owners (aka Bill C-68), I have heard from some people that certain rifle owners (friends of friends) never fell in the trap of registering their stuff (which included semi-auto AKs, FN-FALs, etc). And, what would you know: those types got to keep their guns, even after some of those types of guns were later reclassified & confiscated by the CFC (confiscated from registered owners only, of course!). So yes, they were perhaps violating the new "Liberal Law"... but today, knowing what we know, one could discuss at length whether that was right or wrong. Plus let's not forget that we're still within the "registration amnesty" period... 15 years later, lol!

What your saying is make a list to show how Cheap you can get an unregistered handgun which has no historical value and is only a way to pull one over on the man!

You can either pull one on the man that way or.. for half the cost... get a street gun (which happen to be WAY more widely available than antiques are). With antiques, there's definitely the desire of being able to shoot something that's older than your grandpa, even though you have to handload for it... and let's not bullsh*t ourselves: the legal status of such a gun is also a big appeal.

So yes, it is certainly a way to pull one on "the man" and to enjoy a great historical conversation piece at the range (so basically you get 2 birds with one stone). Saying otherwise (that all non-historical guns have to be in the system) would be condoning the registry and the fascist treatment gun owners have been receiving from our Overlords since 1995!

Rant over...