Canadian Armys "Interm Pistol Program"

flashman2 said:
Here's the rub though: on a tour when it was an absolute free for all in terms of fighting order, the VAST majority of soldiers still chose to use the Tac Vest. Including a lot of "gun" guys. I'm personally not a fan of the TV, I didn't use it on tour, but I'm also not about to tell a few hundred soldiers who used it during the most intense combat operations in Afghanistan that they made the wrong choice. Heck, even most PPCLI guys wore it... If it was as utterly, indisputably terrible as it's portrayed to be here, that wouldn't be the case. Having a pile of money and the freedom to buy pretty much whatever you want is as close to a true democratic vote on the TV as you could get, and most guys still used it.

Unfortunately the design was a bit too early. Had it been designed even a few years later, safe to say we would have gone with a MOLLE solution.
Click to expand...

Well many had no choice.

They were forced to use it. But they should have quickly realize that it wasn't up to standard on a combat operation with 10 mags. They should have had. Non Tech cut the sides of the pouches and put elastic to at least make them double pouches. I mean they modified people combat shirts for pockets on the arms. Telling me they couldn't mod the Tac vest to be practical?
 
flashman2 said:
Here's the rub though: on a tour when it was an absolute free for all in terms of fighting order, the VAST majority of soldiers still chose to use the Tac Vest. Including a lot of "gun" guys. I'm personally not a fan of the TV, I didn't use it on tour, but I'm also not about to tell a few hundred soldiers who used it during the most intense combat operations in Afghanistan that they made the wrong choice. Heck, even most PPCLI guys wore it... If it was as utterly, indisputably terrible as it's portrayed to be here, that wouldn't be the case. Having a pile of money and the freedom to buy pretty much whatever you want is as close to a true democratic vote on the TV as you could get, and most guys still used it.

Unfortunately the design was a bit too early. Had it been designed even a few years later, safe to say we would have gone with a MOLLE solution.
Click to expand...

Because most don't really care or know any better.
 
I wonder if the interm plan Turdo has is to seize our pistols from us all for the CF to use until they choose a replacement?
OK not funny... �� ��
 
flashman2 said:
Here's the rub though: on a tour when it was an absolute free for all in terms of fighting order, the VAST majority of soldiers still chose to use the Tac Vest. Including a lot of "gun" guys. I'm personally not a fan of the TV, I didn't use it on tour, but I'm also not about to tell a few hundred soldiers who used it during the most intense combat operations in Afghanistan that they made the wrong choice. Heck, even most PPCLI guys wore it... If it was as utterly, indisputably terrible as it's portrayed to be here, that wouldn't be the case. Having a pile of money and the freedom to buy pretty much whatever you want is as close to a true democratic vote on the TV as you could get, and most guys still used it.

Unfortunately the design was a bit too early. Had it been designed even a few years later, safe to say we would have gone with a MOLLE solution.
Click to expand...

I dont think one single PPCLI soldier of 1-08 wore the issued tacvest. Those who didnt buy gear prior to deployement bought used gear from the outgoing troops (3-07 Vandoos) or ordered some online prior to fighting season.

We are currently going for a molle solution, with dinosaurs trying to make standards on modular vest...
 
DT741 said:
I dont think one single PPCLI soldier of 1-08 wore the issued tacvest. Those who didnt buy gear prior to deployement bought used gear from the outgoing troops (3-07 Vandoos) or ordered some online prior to fighting season.

We are currently going for a molle solution, with dinosaurs trying to make standards on modular vest...
Click to expand...

Lolololol... ahhhh the more things change. Totally unrelated, but it reminds me of the Bde ex where the BSM decreed toques were NOT to be worn, ever, because it was summer in Petawawa. The COS did not laugh when I asked if the BSM was aware that it got less than warm pulling OP or sentry at 2 am. Also the decree that rain gear was only to worn when it was raining... I submitted a two page memorandum of questions asking for specific guidance as to how long pre and post rain shower it was acceptable for soldiers to don and doff it, or if they had to wait for drops to actually hit the ground and correctly identify that there would be no further rainfall after the end of active showering. What level of precipitation counted as rain? Heavy mist? A drizzle? Could soldiers operating in wet, heavily vegetated environments get a waiver since, you know, the bush doesn't dry out instantly? Could the order to put your gear on be delegated to section commander level with platoon commander concurrence, or was it to be the OCs call only?

It was not received with enthusiasm.

I'm referencing 3-06 with regards to vests. Most pics will show most guys wearing the issue vest. Sure wasn't my choice, but there you have it.

What we really need is just an integrated carrier with molle, and a basic web harness for the odd time you wear FO without armour.
 
Last edited:
OkayShooter said:
Well many had no choice.

They were forced to use it. But they should have quickly realize that it wasn't up to standard on a combat operation with 10 mags. They should have had. Non Tech cut the sides of the pouches and put elastic to at least make them double pouches. I mean they modified people combat shirts for pockets on the arms. Telling me they couldn't mod the Tac vest to be practical?
Click to expand...

No, as I said, on my tour it was a free for all. Honestly most days the only issue items I was wearing were pants, lid and armour. I don't know of a single platoon where some guys at least weren't wearing private purchase FO
 
Last edited:
Some pics from Op MEDUSA showing mixed kit from a bunch of different sections in both RCR and PPCLI companies. Pics show the vast majority of guys wearing the issue vest. Many guys I spoke to didn't even hate it...











 
Last edited:
DT741 said:
Just curious, have you been there ?

There has never been "training ex" overthere and seeing that it is a 2006 video, I can garantee you that its a live fire 2 ways range.

Afghanistan was a big cat&mouse game. Sometimes we got to be the cat (offensive ops) and sometimes we got to be the mouse (day to day patrols)

We captured some footage of contacts filmed by them and compared it to ours from the same contact... The only difference was language and equipment. A lot of people only fired in general directions without ever seeing an actual target. The opponents had similar experience and only saw us enough to take a few shots to see us disapear to try to flank them.

Good times ! :p
Click to expand...

Obviously if I had been there I would not have asked such an offensive question. Thanks for the info on the other stuff.
 
TheTooner said:
The defense and security of this nation is not going to hang on which pistol is issued to the relatively small number of soldiers who need a side-arm. It is not a battle-winning, let alone a war-winning weapon. If having a handgun can save a soldier's life it won't matter whether it's a Sig 226, a Glock xteen or a HiPower, as long as it is in good working condition and the soldier is properly trained.
Click to expand...

With that in mind, I think, if Colt Canada is going to make it instead of buying off the shelf, the easiest option is to just make new, upgraded Hi Powers to the same dimensions as the Inglis, with features from the Mk III like:
Dovetailed three dot night sights;
Large ambidextrous safety;
Contoured synthetic grips;
Baked-on matte black epoxy over phosphate finish;

Plus:
Smaller no bite ring hammer;
Streamlined feed ramp;
Eliminate the "thumbprint" divot on the slide.

A license to build them was issued to Canada during WWII, which has probably expired, but it's unlikely FN is going to object. Also, 15 round magazines exist (modified follower to fit two more rounds).

The magazine disconnect sucks, which is why it was designed such that it can be removed in about two minutes with a punch. And realistically, you'll likely never be in a situation where you can drop a mag just as an enemy takes control of your weapon, though on the other hand you'll be hard pressed to find a reason to fire any pistol without a magazine.
 
Maxman1 tell us you are just kidding. Our Army needs a handgun designed in 1928 and produced in 1935 in it's final form like it needs a canvas backpack or a new bolt action infantry rifle. No one is going to produce a new pistol for the Cdn Army, least of all a steel framed paper weight.. Why we continue to give credence to some junior clerks insertion of a talking point in a memo is beyond me.

Take Care

Bob
 
I don’t think from a manufacturer level you can build a modern Browning the cost of tooling up for a 1920 style production on mass might be too cost prohibitive . For a general duty pistol buy the HK USP like like the P8. If that meets the criteria or go a cheaper striker fired pistol. Criteria is a big thing and steel framed pistol has its benifits over polymer case in point look how old the Browning’s are. Also parts maintenance should be considered.

It’s too bad I’m not running the program. Lol.
 
maxman1 said:
With that in mind, I think, if Colt Canada is going to make it instead of buying off the shelf, the easiest option is to just make new, upgraded Hi Powers to the same dimensions as the Inglis, with features from the Mk III like:
Dovetailed three dot night sights;
Large ambidextrous safety;
Contoured synthetic grips;
Baked-on matte black epoxy over phosphate finish;

Plus:
Smaller no bite ring hammer;
Streamlined feed ramp;
Eliminate the "thumbprint" divot on the slide.

A license to build them was issued to Canada during WWII, which has probably expired, but it's unlikely FN is going to object. Also, 15 round magazines exist (modified follower to fit two more rounds).

The magazine disconnect sucks, which is why it was designed such that it can be removed in about two minutes with a punch. And realistically, you'll likely never be in a situation where you can drop a mag just as an enemy takes control of your weapon, though on the other hand you'll be hard pressed to find a reason to fire any pistol without a magazine.
Click to expand...
That was apparently offered to them like 14 years ago or something. Lol. There making this into too much of a headache. Like everything else. Glock, HK, Sig.FN. There are enough options right there too choose from. Just make sure the companies don’t start skimping on the specs and buy a lot of them.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
All I was wondering was if anyone knew anything about the program...
Click to expand...

There is a project for an Army Interim pistol, but no funded project to fully replace the Browning in the CAF.

I think the problem up to this time, is that the Browning Pistol is the only general issue pistol avail in the Canadian Armed Forces.

The Browning can be issued to anyone, in any element, and there is still about 13K of them sitting in storage (on top of all the ones out on issue with various units).

There are the Sig P225 and Sig P226 in service, but these are not for general issue. They were acquired for specific missions/tasks, and only a limited number have been acquired. As already mentioned, these are for pilots, navy boarding parties, MPs and CP.

The Browning replacement program up to now, has been to replace the Browning as the general issue pistol for all elements, and it will also replace the P225 and P226. Trying to make all these players happy isn't working, or is working very slowly. The Army has the lead on this, but must still satisfy all elements and users.

So, the Army is striking out on its own with it's own Army Interim Pistol project, to get a pistol for the Army that will not be on General Issue and won't be avail for the other elements. This is strictly an Army only project for regular and operational units. This project will run concurrently with the other project to replace the Browning for everyone, but that could be another 10 years or so.

This interim project is hoped to make the acquisition sooner, because the numbers are smaller, and you only have to make the Army happy.

Anyway, the Army hopes this could happen within a couple of years. We shall see.
 
Last edited:
flashman2 said:
Good for you tough guy. Then your ignorance is even more surprising. Please provide evidence the Canadian Army "lost" in Afghanistan. Four tours counting socks doesn't count.
Click to expand...

No single country lost, but the whole western coalition failed... And that should not come as a suprise to anybody, considering that is what the US does best. Taliban is still there, civilians lost their lives, family members, house, etc... Afganistan is not in a better shape...

Back to the topic, I would suggest CF go with P320 sourced from the USA... The supply chain is built up for the US anyhow, should come for a good price...
 
aakoksal said:
No single country lost, but the whole western coalition failed... And that should not come as a suprise to anybody, considering that is what the US does best. Taliban is still there, civilians lost their lives, family members, house, etc... Afganistan is not in a better shape...

Back to the topic, I would suggest CF go with P320 sourced from the USA... The supply chain is built up for the US anyhow, should come for a good price...
Click to expand...

This!

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom