Canadian made "black" rifle

Looking at the Leader T2 and AR180b clone concepts in this thread makes it a very exciting prospect to build a rifle like that here in Canada! I would support any funding requirement needed to produce such a rifle.
 
An interesting question that comes to my mind is how different from the original 180 can this new rifle be while still being classed as an AR180 and avoiding the requirement for a new lab determination? For example, is it possible to construct the receiver from milled aluminum with minor improvements to the original design such as a better stock attachment method/folding mechanism, integral pic rail, etc. without triggering the legal requirement to have it re-determined?

I would imagine if we're only talking about a change of materials, while the internal dimensions, parts interchangeability with the original, etc remain the same, it should qualify, but does anyone know specifically what triggers the need for a re-determination? It would be nice to avoid having to make the thing out of stamped metal if possible.
 
Call JARD up and see if you can licence and improve the J48. It already has a NR FRT.
Make it more reliable and less fugly.
 
Longarm9 said:
An interesting question that comes to my mind is how different from the original 180 can this new rifle be while still being classed as an AR180 and avoiding the requirement for a new lab determination? For example, is it possible to construct the receiver from milled aluminum with minor improvements to the original design such as a better stock attachment method/folding mechanism, integral pic rail, etc. without triggering the legal requirement to have it re-determined?

I would imagine if we're only talking about a change of materials, while the internal dimensions, parts interchangeability with the original, etc remain the same, it should qualify, but does anyone know specifically what triggers the need for a re-determination? It would be nice to avoid having to make the thing out of stamped metal if possible.
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Not sure on what makes it a clone vice a new firearm.
Probably about as subjective as everything else that goes through the shady RCMP gun lab....basically they'll say it's a new gun if they feel like it and want to take a crack at trying to find any means they can to prohib it but I'm only assuming.
The thing is the AR180b had its merits but the AR180 was much more solid as far as materials (especially the lower).
There's nothing wrong with stamped sheet metal. The original AR18 and AR180 lowers were stamped metal. Good to go! As soon as we start milling anything I'm assuming cost is going to go up significantly.

We don't need another XCR at XCR prices. We need a NR AR180 at as low a price as possible. A NR semi auto clone of the AR180 with AR15 compatible parts is where it's at.
http://ar180s.com/
Just with a NR barrel length and make it fit FCG, bolt catch, pistol grip, STANAG mags to be compatible with AR15's to keep costs even lower. Check out that link and tell me you all wouldn't buy that rifle for $1200 Canadian if it could be had NR with AR15 FCG and mags!
 
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Ohno said:
Call JARD up and see if you can licence and improve the J48. It already has a NR FRT.
Make it more reliable and less fugly.
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Bah!
Enough depending on US companies to make a rifle for what we need.
We know what we need in Canada more than anyone anywhere else
Used to be we had the ingenuity and manufacturing to build it and make things happen once long ago as well.
The last fiasco with M+M should be a great indicator of what happens when you depend on a foreign nation for our unique market requirements.
 
ComradeVlad said:
An all metal SU16 Tactical would be what Canada needs....
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Right idea but the receiver lower and upper of the SU16 would require more complex milling/manufacturing driving up price due to skilled manufacturing requirements etc
AR180 is where it's at. It doesn't get any simpler.
Stoner himself designed the AR16 (AR18 by default) to be mass produced with completely unskilled labour force for as low a cost as possible.
It's the Canadian dream man!
 
870P said:
The AK stock selection isn't as as good as it looks at first glance, as even between standard Warsaw Pact AKMs of various makes, parts are not guaranteed to be fully interchangeable.

A component might physically fit but be unacceptably sloppy.

You've also got a different mounting system for fixed and folding stocks on a lot of them.

I'm also fairly certain that stocks designed for updated post Cold War AKs, like the AK-100 series or the FB Beryl, aren't compatible at all with their earlier counterparts.

It'd be best to stick to a particular mounting format.
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well, then I'll nominate the magpul format!

they have zhukov for the folder, moe for a cheaper fixed. both have cheek risers available, plus CanAm is already a magpul dealer

find/make a cheap plastic fixed stock and a wooden one that fit the same and we're off to the races. if there's others out there that work too, great! bonus for the community

what would you suggest for stocks otherwise?
 
Travis Bickle said:
Bah!
Enough depending on US companies to make a rifle for what we need.
We know what we need in Canada more than anyone anywhere else
Used to be we had the ingenuity and manufacturing to build it and make things happen once long ago as well.
The last fiasco with M+M should be a great indicator of what happens when you depend on a foreign nation for our unique market requirements.
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agreed, especially with China right now.. even if it doesn't go so far as embargo's or a war, their costs are rising, making domestic production more competitive like we saw CanAm's new AR's being US made

It'd be great great to see as much of this made in Canada as possible, keep the money/jobs at home, avoid currency swings, etc. there must be plenty of idle machine shops in AB these days...
 
Mr_Mike said:
they can't patent things like the long-stroke piston, thumb safety etc.

but the xcr also uses those and is patented.
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but it's not patented for those things, XCR is patented for it's improved bolt and extractor. I don't think there were any brand new innovations like that with the M10X..

given their generous use of 'Match' and 'DMR' in their marketing, pretty sure if they had a patent or one pending they would have mentioned it about a dozen times!
 
I would love a Mini option. Is it possible to mill the receiver , and have the stock accept the stanag mag. and have a stock like the sabretooth that can take the stanag mags for the mini 14 and mini 30. The US sites don't care about this as they don't have mag round issues.
Or CNC an Mini Receiver that can take mini guts, and XCR mags.
 
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Why do people keep asking for a mini 14?
It requires a steel reciever as the bolt locks into the receiver itself, not a barrel extension.
And it nèeds some unique machining.
Not gonna happen...
 
The more I read on the AR180, the more I like/want.

Simply modernize it a bit, new stock assembly, make it accept AR furniture, optics ready receiver, threaded barrel etc
and I'd buy one for sure
 
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