Canadian Revolver use WWII

I have a S&W M&P early lend lease and an Enfield #2 MkI. I reload for these but can't find bullets over .358. I used to cast my own but lost the mold many years ago. Anybody here have a source for .360 bullets?
In addition to the goose story, I used to kill our pigs for slaughter using a .22 in the head. Down every time. One day I decided to use my .38 Enfield. Poor damned thing did not go down as the bullet just bounced off his skull. Second shot did it but I had to chase him down. I felt like sht over that one. Never again and back to .22.
 
Yes, Budget shooter supply and Jet bullets made by a member here both sell .361 bullets, as does I believe billet barn. Not sure if there are any other sources.
 
MattE93 said:
Yes, Budget shooter supply and Jet bullets made by a member here both sell .361 bullets, as does I believe billet barn. Not sure if there are any other sources.
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I tried budget and Bullet barn and no go but Jet does have them listed on their site. Many thanks.
 
Bounced of the goose and off the head of a pig?? I'm not going to say no because I personally saw bullet from a 38S&W snubbie bounce off the rear window of a 1950 chevy pick up.

That being said, I used an Enfiled pistol with 38/200 cast lead bullets with hollow base, weighing 200 grains and loaded to slightly over 700fps to kill yearling steers for many years. Not one of them needed a second shot and if I wasn't careful, the 200 grain bullet would come out the throat when I made a frontal plate shot. Mostly, after the first OOPS, I just shot through the spinal cord, just behind the ear and they dropped instantly without any fuss. I also shot a lot of pigs with that pistol/load

The 38/200 at 700+fps loading was a formidable round. It was purposely designed for penetration of frozen great coats to get at the vitals of the target. After the Geneva Convention banned the military use of exposed lead bullets, the bullets were jacketed with lead cores, therefore drastically reducing the effectiveness of the bullet. Still, it was considered to be effective enough to disable a human to the point of taking the target out of any fight encountered.

I can't say the same for the 38S&W but it was considered to be a viable police/military cartridge by many professionals in its day.

Because of its close to identical dimensions, the 38 S&W is often confused with the 38/200. I made a real mess of a lovely little S&W revolver chambered for the 38S&W by loading it up with 38/200 cartridges, loaded up to original specs. Didn't kaboom but swelled one of the cylinders and made the hinge pin sloppy.
 
GrantR said:
I have fired my various WWI/WWII-vintage handguns on occasion, though not really "regularly" ....

The 20th-century Canadian military handgun I have fired the most is this 1914 Colt Government Model ... one of the 5,000 such pistols acquired by Canada that year -

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Although purchased from the Militia Department by the officer whose Attestation Paper is shown in the inset, it was one of the 5,000 acquired by the government from Colt, as confirmed by this detail from my Colt Factory Letter -

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I actually tend to shoot my 19th-century vintage "Antique" handguns more frequently, such as this Webley "WG Army Model" -

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......... I’ve got to say, I really appreciate your posts and the history you provide.
 
Bearhunter. To dispatch the pig, I was using a commercial load. Probably around 145 grn bullet.
I am sure the 200 grn would be a hell of a lot more effective as the commercial loads are light.
The 38 S&W is often looked down on but in reality, if somebody is shooting at you with said pistol, you would certainly duck and cover. You wouldn't be thinking "Well, goodness me. That's just a .38. Nothing to worry about there."
 
GrantR said:
Are you suggesting that this pattern of lanyard was not used by Canadian personnel?
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Feeling a bit Jordan Peterson eske, being interviewed by liberal media. No I did not, nor am I saying that. Simply making an observation and certainly not trying to diminish anything.
 
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Is the S&W Model 10 (Victory Model) identified in some way to ensure it is capable of shooting the 38-200 rounds without damage? I have one that I have been shooting regular .38 size bullets through but would like to ensure that I don't damage it if I purchase some of the original design 200 gr. bullets. Thanks for any advice and experience anyone here can offer on sources of bullet moulds, commercially available bullets, and safe loading data.
 
GrantR said:
So far as i am aware, any HP pistol issued in the Canadian Forces, right up to the present day, will be one of the pistols manufactured by Inglis in 1944 or 1945. When the late Clive Law was collecting the information for "Canadian Military Handguns" (published in 1994) his understanding was that there were still thousands of these pistols in Stores, literally "brand new in the box", while those on issue to the Forces were in very much over-used and worn-out condition. Apparently it had something to do with the excessive bureaucratic rigamarole involved with taking a pistol out of service and substituting a new one, which led to the ones already issued being constantly patched up with replacement parts cannibalized from unissued pistols (even up to and including replacement slides and barrels with their serial numbers struck out, since it is the receiver which constitutes the "firearm" under Canadian law.) Once deployments started in earnest in Afghanistan, DND finally had to start issuing some of the pistols which had been sitting in their packing boxes since 1945 ...

"... Then and Now ..."

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So much for lightening the soldier's load :redface:

Grizz
 
Wadctrshootr said:
Is the S&W Model 10 (Victory Model) identified in some way to ensure it is capable of shooting the 38-200 rounds without damage?
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Actually, the S&W Military & Police Model of 1899 (the original designation of that revolver model) was designed for the .38 Special cartridge, and that is what US "Victory Model" revolvers are chambered for. So neither the 38S&W cartridge nor the .380 British service revolver cartridge, if loaded reasonably, will be any problem. In fact, the .380/200 cartridge introduced by Britain in 1922 is simply a military loading of the .38S&W with a heavier non-jacketed lead bullet. The projectiles are the sme diameter, just different weights. Although often referred to with that ".38/200" designation, the official service revolver load was actually changed fairly early on to a ~178gr jacketed bullet - i.e. the Mk II cartridge - and that load is what essentially all .38/.380 British service revolvers were regulated to be shot with. https://military.wikia.org/wiki/.38-200

Interestingly, I have very recently acquired an early-production (1934) Enfield No.2 Mk I revolver ... the primary-issue service revolver the .380 cartridge was used in ... which has an interesting "after-market" rear sight adaptor, with a simple tight sliding fit on the top strap, to provide a slightly higher rear sighting notch.

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Such devices were apparently fairly common for use with the many .380 Enfield revolvers which became avaialble on the commercial market as surplus after WWII. The heavier bullet of the British service cartridge, for which these revolvers were regulated, would impact higher than the lighter bullet of the more commonly available .38S&W cartridges much more readily available to civilian shooters in North America, so these devices were available to adjust pointy of impact to point of aim with the lighter bullet.
 
O/T My dad's town was at least partially freed by Cdn. units. I do not know the details, all I have is his story given to me by him when he was still with us. A Cdn. armoured unit was encamped in the countryside/farmland adjacent to his little town. Dad would have been ~ 13 y.o. at the time. Families had to get creative wrt. ensuring the kids were getting enough to eat. A common strategy was to contract out kids old enough to work as farm hands & get paid in enough to eat etc. This is why dad was out in this semi - rural area. In Flanders there are mainly only semi rural areas & then you are in the next town over. One day he noticed a bored Cdn. cavalryman bring an MP38 or MP 40 up and shoot a stray cat with it, wielding the SMG as though it was a pistol. From what dad said the cavalryman was a big native man. This seems incongrous as one would think a cavalryman would be of smaller stature. This was in West Flanders, Arrondissement of Roeselare.

"Operation Switchback"

Warmonument Hoofdplaat:
https://www.worldwar2heritage.com/en/page/9069/59/Warmonument-Hoofdplaat

P.S. This big native man was most likely from an Infantry unit. This was part of The Battle of the Scheldt, to open Antwerp. Canada did heavy lifting during this campaign.

The number 1 refers to the first marker post of 18 successive posts marking the liberation trail followed by Canadian troops in October and November 1944 as part of operation “Switchback” by the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division.
This liberation operation began in Hoofdplaat in Zeeland Flanders by the 8th and 9th Canadian Divisions that were landed here to attack the Germans from the rear.
The last marker post is in Knokke – Belgium.

The Canadian liberation trail is marked by 18 markers, marking number 1 of this trail being bricked into this war memorial. The memorial is also the start of the annual liberation march that is traditionally held in Knokke-Heist on two days in the first week of November during Canada Week. The trail is 33 kilometres long.
The tradition of this liberation trail arose because of the task given to the Canadians to clear the canal harbours and then to tackle West Flanders. The Canadians reached Bruges on 12 September, but things went wrong at the canals. After Moerbrugge the district of ‘t Molentje in Moerkerke proved deadly for the Regina Rifles.
A second attempt to cross the canals was made in Strobrugge, but it too failed. Army command decided to launch an amphibious attack from Terneuzen across the Braakman to the vicinity of Hoofdplaat and Biervliet in the Netherlands. This was the main assault for the liberation of West Zeeland Flanders from the Germans and was given the name: “Operation Switchback”.
The population of Heist had to evacuate to Knokke. As a result of incorrect information Sluis was bombed by the allies, with a high number of deaths among the civilian population as a result. The ninth Canadian Infantry Brigade cleared a path to Knokke through the polders, assisted by some tank regiments. After building a Bailey Bridge in Retranchement, the troops were able to push on to the part of Belgium that had not yet been liberated. The liberators were welcomed into Knokke on 1 November. That same day further civilians and soldiers fell victim to shelling from Duinbergen and Zeebrugge.
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GrantR said:
Actually, the S&W Military & Police Model of 1899 (the original designation of that revolver model) was designed for the .38 Special cartridge, and that is what US "Victory Model" revolvers are chambered for. So neither the 38S&W cartridge nor the .380 British service revolver cartridge, if loaded reasonably, will be any problem. In fact, the .380/200 cartridge introduced by Britain in 1922 is simply a military loading of the .38S&W with a heavier non-jacketed lead bullet. The projectiles are the sme diameter, just different weights. Although often referred to with that ".38/200" designation, the official service revolver load was actually changed fairly early on to a ~178gr jacketed bullet - i.e. the Mk II cartridge - and that load is what essentially all .38/.380 British service revolvers were regulated to be shot with. https://military.wikia.org/wiki/.38-200

Interestingly, I have very recently acquired an early-production (1934) Enfield No.2 Mk I revolver ... the primary-issue service revolver the .380 cartridge was used in ... which has an interesting "after-market" rear sight adaptor, with a simple tight sliding fit on the top strap, to provide a slightly higher rear sighting notch.

T0KqBx.jpg


Such devices were apparently fairly common for use with the many .380 Enfield revolvers which became avaialble on the commercial market as surplus after WWII. The heavier bullet of the British service cartridge, for which these revolvers were regulated, would impact higher than the lighter bullet of the more commonly available .38S&W cartridges much more readily available to civilian shooters in North America, so these devices were available to adjust pointy of impact to point of aim with the lighter bullet.
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Beauty revolver. The ones with the spur are nice. The DA pull is a little heavy on these so the option for SA would be nice
 
Don’t forget about the Colt New Service. Dominion allies like Canada had them in .455 eley. I was bequeathed such a gun from my Step-Grandather who was a mechanic/electrician in the CF. She slings some big slugs, 265 grains of lead!
 
cigar_man said:
View attachment 292964

WW1 - S&W Hand Ejector (Capt. G.H. Hollier - from Tillsonburg, Ontario) 168th Battalion CEF
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Beautiful revolver - thought I would share this.

When my late father worked as a management intern for 3M in London Ontario in the late 50's, one of his jobs involved clearing shipments imported from 3M in the states with the federal excise and tax office. His contact in that office asked him where he was from, and when he found out that dad grew up on the north shore of Lake Superior, he related that he had been an officer stationed at the Neys POW camp near Marathon during WWII. After the war, he was allowed to keep the .455 S&W Hand Ejector revolver he was issued. Dad was starting out as a handgunner and ended up buying the handgun. Years later the handgun was traded off towards a S&W 44 magnum revolver.

Cleaning up the estate, I ended up with several boxes of Remington 455 ammunition roll stamped as manufactured in December 1941 that he had bought to shoot with the revolver.

This is one handgun I would like to add to my collection
 
Warden70 said:
Don’t forget about the Colt New Service. Dominion allies like Canada had them in .455 eley.
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The Colt New Service was acquired in several batches in early 1900 (first shipment in .45 Colt, subsequent batches in .455 Eley) for issue to later contingents of Canadian personnel deployed to South Africa furing the 2nd Anglo-Boer War ... to supplement the Model 1878 Colt Double Action revolvers (.45 Colt chambering) acquired in 1885 which were issued to our first contingent. The New Service was also adopted as the official issue revolver of the RNWMP in 1905, but few, if any, of them were acquired after 1900 for Canadian military issue ... very much "secondary/supplementary issue" during WWI and WWII.

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This one,in my collection bears the Canadian Dept. of Militia & Defence "M&D" property mark and, as noted in the caption, is confirmed by Colt Factory letter as having been one of an April 1900 shipment to the Department's Purchasing Agent
 
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