Cannon

[Bobby Ironsights]

I've heard a lot of miscellaneous hooey about cannons and the legality/illegality of such.Generally speaking it comes down to....."That's gotta be illegal"


The most common myths I've read are the sub-500 ft per second rule (trying to extrapolate airgun rules) and the 15mm bore "rule" which applies to smokeless powder rifles that have an "action" lever, bolt, break-breech etc...etc....


I'd like to start a thread to hammer out the real from the deal. It does seem that because re-enactors use them, and no major incident involving the public has brought them under scrutiny, they've continued to be legal.

I certainly hope this thread doesn't encourage anyone to do anything dumb with a cannon that would attract the attention of the authorities and get antique cannons legislated against......

This all applies only to single shot, muzzleloading, black powder cannons shooting solid projectiles, they seem to be considered "antiques" in both Canada and the States. Somewhat like flintlocks, wheellocks, and matchlocks.

*****This is a factfinding thread only and I reserve the right to be wrong*****

Now the Bad News.....

As far as I know, there are serious secondary restrictions on cannons

-Cannonballs and mortars that contain explosives are "destructive devices" are themselves illegal

-safe handling practices are still necessary, you cannot transport them loaded etc.etc. that is illegal.

-You are still legally liable for keeping the projectile on your property.
***this is the biggest restriction I've found on cannons***

-discharging a cannon, even without a cannonball in it, within city limits is "disturbing the peace" and "mischeif" and subject to confiscation and criminal charges

-mounting a cannon on a roadgoing vehicle, like a trailer, is illegal, because of motor vehicle laws.

-mounting a cannon on an oceangoing vessel, it is considered a signalling device and then falls under all sorts of strange and complex maritime laws....

.....Only the use of lit fuse or touch-hole, like the originals, is allowed. Electronic or other ignition would negate the "antique" status, constitute a "modern action" and you'd be violating the law.

- any use of a cannon to commit a crime would negate it's "antique" status, and you'd be liable, just like a flintlock or such....


-People can get hurt with cannons, they always could, if you hurt yourself, you've no-one to complain to.

-If you hurt someone else, or damage property, with your cannon, even on your own property, you may be liable. (like getting sued for damages)

****endnote....If you use smokeless powder for a cannon, you'll likely die...****

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pb...64/1003/NEWS02


Does anyone else have anything else to add to, or contradict my understanding of the legality of, or dangers posed by, cannons?

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

asdf

 

[englishman_ca]

Be careful, know your range.

A friend of mine (who has now passed away) was born and raised in Toronto. Back in the sixties he and his friends spend alot of time playing out on Toronto island. If you have ever taken the ferry accross, you may have noticed that there is (or used to be, its been a few years) two cannons on the shore of the island either side of where the ferry pulls in.

My buddy and his friends at the age of about 10 years old, would play with the cannons, would pretend to be pirates shooting at boats as they went by.

You know where this story is going, don't you?

About three or four years later on a return trip to the island, my buddy noticed that the cannons were looking pretty sad looking, were rusty and neglected. He got permission for him and his friends to paint them. The paint was even supplied for them to use. So that summer, he and a couple of teenage buddies sanded and wire brushed the cannons. They went at it everyday for a week. They painted them making them spiffy looking. They cleaned out the bores too, which apparantly was quite the task due to rust, muck, dead critters and garbage but they got them cleaned out. Pretty clean too by all accounts. Someone on the island found some cannon balls to stack by the guns and welded them up in a neat piramid pile. There were a couple of spare cannon balls which were given to them as souvenirs for their efforts. That's when my buddy got the bright idea.

He figured that if he used just a little wee bit of powder, the ball would just be lobbed out into the lake. So he went home and stole a pound of powder from his father's lockup (who did black powder shooting). They loaded a gun up with a "small amount" but it didn't look like it would be enough, it just sat at the bottom of the breech and they were not sure how the touch hole would light it, so they added a bit more. He wasn't sure if the charge would be strong enough to even launch the cannon ball, it was pretty heavy, so they added some more which was pretty much all of it and rolled a cannon ball down the spout. The gun pointed out into the water, back towards Toronto.

They were smart enough to make sure that no boats were coming when they lit her up, there was a big boom, a cloud of smoke, but no sign of a splash out in the water.

They did notice in the distance, the Island ferry just off the dock in Toronto coming over to the island, turn around and head back towards the city. The kids packed up their kit and ran. Problem was, they were on the island and there was no way for them to get off except by ferry. About about ten minutes the Harbour police showed up and were all over the guns. The Captain of the ferry had seen the muzzle flash on the island and then saw the splash and plume of water about hundred feet directly in front of the boat. He got the all clear from the cops after an hour and the ferry resumed service. My buddy got busted casualy walking onto the ferry.

I guess things were different in those days, no charges were laid, but he was taken home in a cruiser. He remembered his father's face when he answered the door bell and saw him standing there with two cops. Buddy did alot of standing the next couple of days cos his ass was sore from his father's paddling! Later, he and his friends ended up being brought down to the police station by their parents and standing in front of the Chief's desk for a severe reprimand.

The guns were still there a few years ago, I checked them out. And yup, one of them pointed directly at Toronto. There were no stacks of cannon balls and both guns' barrels had been filled with concrete!

So the range on these things is quite suprising. You no doubt have heard of the four mile off shore limit on the sea coast? Anything after that is considered international waters. Apparantly, that is from the days of the old cannons, four miles being the range of the shore batteries! So unlesss you are shooting on a very large piece of private property, you better make sure that you have a suitable backstop!!!

 

[tiriaq]

I have heard of the 15mm bore rule, but have never seen anything definitive about it, except in reference to the permissible calibre for flares. Smaller calibre flares are prohibited ammunition - incendiary projectiles - while larger ones are pyrotechnic devices, and exempt from ammunition restrictions.
Explosive projectiles are a separate issue, not directly related to cannons. The only explosive projectiles with which I have had any personal experience are the ones used for whaling.
Modern touch hole ignition guns (non-handguns) are exempt from the FA as deemed antiques. So are spark ignition ml guns. All post 1897 handguns are modern, of course, regardless of ignition system, as are post '97 caplock longarms. A flint cannon lock would be OK, if lanyard, as opposed to match or fuse firing is desired.
Suppose a person had a 6pdr AT gun. Is it subject to registration as a single shot rifle? I don't know.
Discharge of any cannon must be under circumstances that are not going to attract untoward attention.
Knew a chap who perpetrated an incident similar to the one englishman ca described. In Northern Ireland. The cannon was mounted in a park. Across the pond was a two storey mill, with many glass windows. After carefully clearing the bore, he loaded the gun with a stout blank charge. Broke all the windows in the buildings around the pond. While he was suspected, he avoided apprehension.

 

[prosper]

hehehe, I'd like to se what would happen if someone pulled that stunt today...

They'd probably be labelled a 'terrorist' and sent to Gitmo or something.

 

[tiriaq]

There is a story about a chap shooting a beer can cannon. The rounds were going "boom", he was watching their impact. One went "crack", disappeared, no observed impact. A few minutes later a very irate farmer pulled up. It appears that the flange on the end of the can expanded, like the skirt on a Minie ball, sealing the bore and eliminating windage. Consequently, the range increased dramatically, over half a mile. The can landed in the farmer's pigpen while he was tending his livestock.

 

[Al Flipo]

****endnote....If you use smokeless powder for a cannon, you'll likely die...****

Correct…..
Unless the equipment is designed for it.
This cannon shoots 5” groups with a ball at 100 yard.

 

[TimC]

reminds me of the old punt gunners! now that I suppose would be illegal in Canada, not here as long as you have permission and shoot the right flock of birds! I often considered using one mounted on the ground or on a trailer for the masses of woodpigeons we get on the crops here!

 

[tiriaq]

A puntgun is illegal for hunting waterfowl in North America; there is a maximum gauge allowance. Can't think of any other game where one might be usable.

 

[tootall]

A puntgun is illegal for hunting waterfowl in North America; there is a maximum gauge allowance. Can't think of any other game where one might be usable.

Hunting rules dont really affect Firearms rules. If you just like guns, and want to make a big bang, a puntgun should be OK to own, yes/no?