can't close bolt on round

freddyfour said:
I have had the opposite happen, I seated a few TTSX'S out to far without a crimp in my 260 and not be able to close the bolt.
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This has been my experience, also. Very seldom that I can push the seated, un-crimped bullet, deeper with just closing the bolt on it.
I admit here, though, that I have not tried Ganderite's trick of greasing the locking lugs. Got to try that one.
Bruce
 
H4831 said:
This has been my experience, also. Very seldom that I can push the seated, un-crimped bullet, deeper with just closing the bolt on it.
I admit here, though, that I have not tried Ganderite's trick of greasing the locking lugs. Got to try that one.
Bruce
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Well , it wasn't as easy as just closing the bolt. I had to give it a good solid push.
 
Haven't read through the whole thread, so sorry if it has been mentioned. Check the case neck thickness. Take a fired piece of brass and try to slip a bullet into the case mouth. It should go in freely - if not, your case neck is too thick and that can lead to difficulty in closing the bolt.
 
I had problems , I forget if it was the brass or what . So I drilled a hole in a 10thou feeler gauge and used it on top of the shell holder. Problem solved . I have since paid attention to different shell holders measure different . Sometimes enough to matter
 
freddyfour said:
I'm sure I could have got it closed if I really tried but I stopped as there was obviously a problem with what I was doing.
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What problem do you see yourself doing.

I took a empty case, no primer,no powder. And partially seated a bullit.
I then closed the bolt. Where's the problem?
 
Brianma65 said:
What problem do you see yourself doing.

I took a empty case, no primer,no powder. And partially seated a bullit.
I then closed the bolt. Where's the problem?
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I think we are not talking about the same thing. My example is with ammunition I already loaded. I do use the empty case, bullet and Sharpe to find out max OAL.
 
freddyfour said:
I think we are not talking about the same thing. My example is with ammunition I already loaded. I do use the empty case, bullet and Sharpe to find out max OAL.
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Ohhh, you thought I was taking a live cartridge ,and ramming it home. :)
I believe we are doing the same thing, only I don't use a sharpie.
 
Going back to old loading charts, here is a bit from the very first Norma Gunsbug guide, their 25 page loading manual. This one has more information on it than did most of the charts from that time. Most of them had only five columns; powder, charge of powder, weight of bullet, velocity and pressure.
This one from Norma also has the type of bullet, weight of bullet and COAL.
Interesting to note, though, and the 243 is an example, that even though they have two types of 100 grain bullets, the exact charge of powder gives identical performance for each bullet. This is the same in other examples. In other words, weight of the bullet is the only thing that matters.
Also, at the time of this manual they do not show Norma 205, because they didn't have it yet! It came along later, then later still came the new name for it, MRP.
 
I disagree with "weight of bullet" is the only thing that matters. Bearing surface does, and more importantly, shape of the nose. If the ogive is further out and engaging the lands, the pressure will be much higher than a bullet that is jumped. Unless you're measuring coal from the ogive. Otherwise sir, your opinions and info is greatly appreciated.
 
rl4930 said:
I disagree with "weight of bullet" is the only thing that matters. Bearing surface does, and more importantly, shape of the nose. If the ogive is further out and engaging the lands, the pressure will be much higher than a bullet that is jumped. Unless you're measuring coal from the ogive. Otherwise sir, your opinions and info is greatly appreciated.
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I don't measure COAL by any method, because I couldn't care less what some book says it is. I load so the bullets will work through the magazine and the bolt will close on it.
This theory about longer bullets having more drag, thus more pressure, is just one of the great many theories on the CGN that has no basis in fact. With the same charge of powder, weight of the bullet is what affects pressure, not the shape of the bullet.
The same goes for seating where the bullet hits the lands.
I guess we'll just have to disagree on a few things. Its nice to know that I have the likes of the Norma laboratories on my side!
 
Pinard said:
Ok so here is my problem... reloaded some 308 ammo with federal brass (I know it's not the best but it's what I have at the moment.)
I shoot it with a remington 700 VTR.. bone stock.

Here is where I can't figure what's up. load the first round, goes bang and no problem to be seen. Load next round, bolt won't fully close on it. I remove the round, seak for obstruction but path all clear. try again, can't close the bolt. Remove round, try another one, bolt closes. Overall on 30 rounds 5 of the prevented the bolt to close fully.

the OAL of the rounds are 2,695in on paper... they are all between 2,690 and 2,699 in reality. what I can't understand is that some of the rounds that won't chamber are 2,692 and the ones at 2,695+ work fine.

All casings have been resized with a full resize die

Can't figure what happens with the bad ones! anyone knows what ?

EDIT: yes the casings have been trimmed down to 308 specs, bullets are seated right and primers are also seated right
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I buy 500 once fired Lake City military 5.56 cases at a time and have never had a chambering problem in two AR15s and a .223 bolt action.

You need to remember these cases were fire formed in another chamber and when full length resized will try to "spring back" to their fired size.

I use a small base die to return the case diameter to minimum diameter and "pause" at the top of the ram stroke for a few seconds. The "pausing" for a few seconds greatly reduces the brass spring back with emphases on the case shoulder not moving forward after sizing. After the first sizing with a small base die these cases are then sized with a normal full length resizing die. Meaning now these cases are fire formed to my chamber and should not need and special sizing operations.

I would advise getting a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge that checks from the base of the case to the shoulder.

Using this gauge is simple, you measure a fired case and make sure after sizing the case is .001 to .002 shorter than its fired length.

Only use a new cartridge fired in your chamber for your base measurement for adjusting your shoulder bump and pushing the shoulder back .001 to .002.

"SOMETIMES" you may need to lap a few thousandths off the top of a shell holder. This allows you to "push" the case further into the die and increase the shoulder setback.

"Normally" I use Redding competition shell holders that allow my RCBS Rockchucker press to cam over and the die make hard contact with the shell holder.

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and no two chambers and dies are the same. Meaning you need to adapt to the brass you are sizing at that time and make die adjustments up or down.
 
ykkid said:
Pinard, you were doing well until you drank the koolaid. Nothing wrong with Federal brass. Pro'lly your "once fired" isn't, or it was fired in a chamber somewhat larger than your rifle's.
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X2
There is nothing wrong with Federal brass it's very good brass.
You have other options if your pockets are deep enough like Lapua, Norma, RWS etc. but I have often used Remington, Winchester and Federal with excellent results.
BB
 
bigbull said:
X2
There is nothing wrong with Federal brass it's very good brass.
You have other options if your pockets are deep enough like Lapua, Norma, RWS etc. but I have often used Remington, Winchester and Federal with excellent results.
BB
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There is some truth to it, especially recently.

Tests have shown federal brass to be softer than others, and they tend to stretch out their primer pockets faster than others. Recently, I had a few primers back out of factory ammo. One even buggered the extractor on my Axis(almost knocked it right out of the bolt, no long term damage), and burned "270 Winchester" into the bolt face. If this was a more expensive gun I would have been furious... Since that experience, I have put all my federal brass to the side and only use winchester brass for my 270.
 
H4831 said:
I sure have made mistakes, no question about that.
The point I was trying to get across was that modern reloading manuals are so loaded with material, a lot of it on precise measurements, that it is very confusing to anyone starting out. In short, the modern manuals are so over stating the whole business of reloading, that they are causing confusion and actually creating problems where none existed. In my opinion, modern manuals try to state every nuance that may be encountered, thus leaving no room for the new loader to work anything out, or even think for themselves.
Generations of reloaders were making high quality ammunition before I got going, but even by then there was very little written material available.
I am not saying the old way was the best method, nor am I attempting to tell anyone how to reload, but only pointing out how things were, back in the day.
The powder manufactures would print out loading charts in one or two folded pages and give to any gun store, to hand out to any customer who wanted one. du Pont had a little larger one, mostly pointing out the qualities of their various powders, plus the usual loading charts.
In the early 1960s Norma products came on strong in Canada and they had a little 6"x8" manual, a total of 25 pages, including descriptions of their products and loading charts for both Norma and US powders. All the information to safely make high quality ammunition was in that little booklet and it is virtually the only manual I have ever owned! I figured out how to know how much my fired brass was "growing," and make a judgement on when to trim. I always had a new brass case, of the calibre being loaded, set aside and I would compare my shot brass for length, with the new one and when there was much difference I would file the end down to match the new one. But hey, don't laugh, there are trophies in my cabinet won with ammunition made exactly as described here.
I'm going to close this for now, but will later post a picture or two, of the information given in the old charts.
Bruce
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Love this!!! ^^^^
 
Pinard said:
Ok so here is my problem... reloaded some 308 ammo with federal brass (I know it's not the best but it's what I have at the moment.)
I shoot it with a remington 700 VTR.. bone stock.

Here is where I can't figure what's up. load the first round, goes bang and no problem to be seen. Load next round, bolt won't fully close on it. I remove the round, seak for obstruction but path all clear. try again, can't close the bolt. Remove round, try another one, bolt closes. Overall on 30 rounds 5 of the prevented the bolt to close fully.

the OAL of the rounds are 2,695in on paper... they are all between 2,690 and 2,699 in reality. what I can't understand is that some of the rounds that won't chamber are 2,692 and the ones at 2,695+ work fine.

All casings have been resized with a full resize die

Can't figure what happens with the bad ones! anyone knows what ?

EDIT: yes the casings have been trimmed down to 308 specs, bullets are seated right and primers are also seated right
Click to expand...

You need to determine where the stoppage is occurring - is it the case or the bullet? My guess would be that you are hanging up on the e bullet but you never know until you look.

Bullets will often vary slightly on the ogive, and this won't show up in the OAL measurement. Take one of the rounds that wouldn't chamber. Apply permanent marker to the bullet and let it dry, then carefully chamber it and close the bolt as far as it will go. Carefully remove the cartridge and inspect the bullet. If the point of contact is on the bullet, then it will probably show as rubbed spot in the marker. If there is no rubbed spot then the case must be the issue.
 
hoytcanon said:
Didn't read the thread, but I would go with "crushed neck" due to uneven pressure on the press...
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Yup have had this happen with 22 250 brass where the shoulder collasped a very small bit and caused the case to swell right behind the shoulder . and couldn't push the bolt closed no matter how hard I pushed on the bolt .
 
OP,

I gotta hang with Bruce and Douglas. Hurts sometimes, but gotta be done. When they're right, ya gotta back them (and more often than not, they ARE)

Many years ago I ran into a similar issue. Live and learn. I only load segregated rounds to a particular rifle (in my infancy, I just grabbed brass, FL re-sized it, and went on never caring what it had been fired in before, or what it was going into now). Now, after each batch of 100 is re-sized, they get chambered. If it's hard then to chamber, they get hit again, and then I also measure the case and the case-mouth to make sure that there is no excessive spring-back this time that will cause the neck to not hold the bullet with sufficient tension, or to be too big OD to chamber once the bullet is inserted.
I already have a dummy round made up for THAT rifle and THAT cartridge. I just put the dummy cartridge in the shell-holder, lower the ram, and screw the bullet seater in until it touches (not delicately, but to begins to just raise the ram handle) the bullet. Then I can reload with confidence that they will all be the same length. Now, the 100 cases are all loaded. They get chambered again, but this time from the magazine. I hunt, I can't afford a repeat of an animal waiting for me to shoot again while my bolt won't close on a second cartridge.
And, BTW, it happened about 7 years ago, and both Bruce and Douglas helped me figure out the "run them through the chamber twice" process. Well, maybe not helped...but badgered me into being convinced. LOL!! And this, after 25+ years of reloading and never having had this happen before. The reason? In this instance the case mouths needed to be annealed and, although I felt the bullets slide in with a different tension, I ignored it.
Still got the moose, but had to wait longer for her to die. Now, not only do I ensure that each and every round will chamber, I also bring an extra rifle.
 
I have this issue with my savage axis 308 when using RCBS die. Can get Remington brass to fit but not Federal. When I measured the case at the base I found it was just slightly to large. Think I need to use a small base die.
 
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