Cast bullets for rifle loads

ipscgraz

ipscgraz

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I just picked up a couple of boxes of cast bullets for 30-30 (165 Gr) and 45-70 (350 Gr) for trial. I have searched the forum for a couple of loads for the two calibers but didn't see anything using the powders I currently have in the box. For convenience sake, does anyone have a good starting load for the above in

IMR 4895
IMR 4198
IMR 3031
IMR 4350
IMR SR 4756

700X

VARGET
BENCHMARK

Any valid info is appreciated.
 
Cast bullet loads for 30-30(165 gr) 45-70(350 gr)

Lyman loading manuals are a good source for a lot of cast bullet data. This info is from the Lyman #47
30-30 169 gr cast; IMR 3031 Start load 23.0 gr - Max 30.0 gr

45-70 385 gr cast; IMR 4198 Start load 23.0 gr - Max 30.0 gr

45-70 385 gr cast: IMR 3031 Start load 30.0 gr - Max 39.0 gr

The 45-70 loads list a 1/2 gr polyester fiber wad used over the powder. The powder wad is there to keep the powder charge against the primer for more consistent ignition.

I shoot a .458 Win with 525gr bevel base cast bullet using 2400 powder and if I keep the velocity at 1150 fps or less it is super accurate out to 500 yds.
 
I've been using the Lyman data for 405gr tlg from the bullet barn in my 450. I've been using IMR4198 and found them very accurate. Have been loading 30gr, just finished loading some at 27gr, just to try it, as my cast load shoots about 4" higher than my hunting load of 50gr 3031 under a 400gr hawk.

My 49th Lyman manual shows for 45/70marlin with 330gr cast using 4198:
Min. 40, max. 44gr.

For 30-30 as above with 170gr: min. 18, max. 24gr.

Please post how you like the 30-30 on cast as I've been planning on getting some for the wife's guns next time I order.
Hope this helps.
 
Suka said:
I've been using the Lyman data for 405gr tlg from the bullet barn in my 450. I've been using IMR4198 and found them very accurate. Have been loading 30gr, just finished loading some at 27gr, just to try it, as my cast load shoots about 4" higher than my hunting load of 50gr 3031 under a 400gr hawk.

My 49th Lyman manual shows for 45/70marlin with 330gr cast using 4198:
Min. 40, max. 44gr.

For 30-30 as above with 170gr: min. 18, max. 24gr.

Please post how you like the 30-30 on cast as I've been planning on getting some for the wife's guns next time I order.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

OK; it will be a few days before I get a chance to try them. Thanks for the data.
 
ipscgraz said:
Been there...most of the lead (not jacketed) loads were for powder I don't happen to have right now.

Good pointer though...that is a handy reference page. I already have it as a favourite.

Thanks anyway.
Click to expand...

I presume your 45-70 is of the Marlin variety. If it is, this load, at least, given with 4198 powder, is a very light load.

45-70 385 gr cast; IMR 4198 Start load 23.0 gr - Max 30.0 gr

With 420 grain cast bullets, I use 33 grains of 4198 for a fairly light plinking load. For a heavier load I loaded 43 grains of 4198 with the 420 grain bullet. This was the starting load given in the loading book I had for that load in the Marlin. It was plenty heavy for me, as a few shots made my head ache, but it was actually not a heavy load for the Marlin.
You don't have to stick to certain powders, for certain cast bullets in the 45-70. Of the powders you list, 4756 is for light loads, 4350 is too slow burning to be efficient, but the other three are all well adapted to the 45-70 and cast bullets. The 350 grain bullets you have are pretty light for cast bullets in the 45-70. Mostly they run from 400 to 500 grains.
Thus, you can look at a load for any bullet heavier than your 350 grain, and it would be perfectly safe to use that load with the lighter bullet, as long as it was a suitable load for the heavier bullet.
My criteria in loading the 45-70 is to load up as much as I feel up to in shooting it! I have never come even remotely close to over loading the rifle.
 
Sized to .311 , and BHN 16 hardness , with 27 grains of 30-31
311041.jpg

Rifle Bullet Mould: 30 Caliber - #311041Bullet # : 311041 (Gas Check)

Grain: 173gr

Top Punch : 8

Double Cavity # : 2660041
 
My fav powder for cast bullets in the GG (45/70) is H-322
If you can get your hands on some Trail Boss, that makes for a nice light load.

If you've got Marlins, you may also want to give the Marlin Owners forum a try. lots of good info specific to Marlins esp. 30-30 and 45/70 over there.

Also if your 30-30 has a microgroove barrel, you may not find the Bullet Barn's .30 cal bullets to its liking, as they need to fit a little tighter (I ended up with a target that looked like a shotgun blast). The Bullet Barn's are .308 or .309 if I'm not mistaken and you might need something that's .310 or .311. Ben Hunchak did me up some with gas checks that worked a lot better.
 
For high end type loads you may want something more suitable, someone mentioned Lyman #31041, and yes, it is the std. for the 30/30, good lube grooves, gas check, crimp groove in the right place. That bullet has shot 1/2" groups from my .308 bench gun at over 2000 fps. For the 45/70, I would suggest bullets with lots of lube grooves, and of a proven design, some of the gas checked LBT designs are deadly in the 45/70 and are what Buffalo Bore use for their factory loads. Handloaders can really up the ante here, M.T. Chambers makes a number of LBT "HAMMERS" for the 45/70 and it is fairly easy to duplicate or exceed Buffalo Bore or Garrett factory ammo. My fav. powders are AA2015, RL-7, H-335, H-322. As others have mentioned, you need your bullet to be a good fit(seal) or accuracy will be bad, alot of .30 cal. do shoot better with .310" bullets or wider, esp. microgroove barrels.
 
If you are not using a gas check bullet use a fast burning pistol powder.
Heavy loads of 3031 will melt the base of the bullet. Been there, dunit.
I have used 700x with 150 gr. lee bullets in 30/30 with excellent results.
Lyman's Cast Bullet handbook lists 6.0 grains of 700X as a starting load for 170 grain bullets and 7.5 grains as maximum.

Bullets sized to .308" will not usually shoot very well out of microgroove barrels. I have found that sizing to .310" improves accuracy.
 
Just to answer any questions I got to the range today with some 30-30 loads. (Marlin 336)
I used IMR 3031 because the can was already open.


165 grain Cast bullet, no gas check.
24 grains IMR 3031 = 1598 FPS average.
25 grains IMR 3031 = 1685 FPS average
26 Grains IMR 3031 = 1724

I can't comment on the accuracy because all rounds shot so low most of them were off an 8.5 X 11 inch target...at 50 yards! Sighted in with 150 grain jacketed at 2100 FPS.

I had to aim 5 feet high to hit the dinger at 200 yards.

I noticed the recoil was increasing sharply from the 24 grain load to 25 grains, and from 25 to 26 grains. No pressure indications.

I guess I will go to 28 grains and try again. Plus crack open the 4198 for a trial.
 
You still had fun shooting though right? Reloading and testing is more fun to me than actually hitting stuff.
 
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