CF small arms trial completed

Come on Terry! Considering how long it took to get a decent raincoat, felt pretty symbolic :)

If the raincoat leaked no one could get a reporter's interest. But if the handgun doesn't tick every box, well that's another story.

I recall someone specifying a Lee Enfield No.4 when it came to replacing the Ranger's rifles. That document was rejected outright, and when the project got itself going, the Rangers got the C17 rifle. It was news for a short while, and then was replaced by something more salacious and inside-Ottawa.
 
I was in 412 Sqn in Ottawa and the phone rang one day and they said we were getting 2 Dash 7 aircraft, brand new. Nobody asked for them so what’s up. Apparently Dehavilland / Bombardier / Boeing (the owner of the day) was having problems sales wise so someone made the decision we would get some.

So the logistics of us getting these very soon starts and low and behold, another phone call says hold off,, they found a buyer so it’s a no go.

Well about 8 months later it resurfaces again and the plan is to get 2 of them and send them to Lahr in the hopes that the Europeans might see them around and get interested in buying some. They stayed in Lahr for a number of years before they disappeared somewhere.

Sometimes you get things you never asked for or thought possible…
 
I was in 412 Sqn in Ottawa and the phone rang one day and they said we were getting 2 Dash 7 aircraft, brand new. Nobody asked for them so what’s up. Apparently Dehavilland / Bombardier / Boeing (the owner of the day) was having problems sales wise so someone made the decision we would get some.

So the logistics of us getting these very soon starts and low and behold, another phone call says hold off,, they found a buyer so it’s a no go.

Well about 8 months later it resurfaces again and the plan is to get 2 of them and send them to Lahr in the hopes that the Europeans might see them around and get interested in buying some. They stayed in Lahr for a number of years before they disappeared somewhere.

Sometimes you get things you never asked for or thought possible…

And then there was the time Canada sold their Chinooks to the Netherlands, only to rent them back twenty years later. I flew on one of those rented chinooks and you could still see the Canadian Maple Leaf Flag decal under the new Netherlands paint job.
 
And then there was the time Canada sold their Chinooks to the Netherlands, only to rent them back twenty years later. I flew on one of those rented chinooks and you could still see the Canadian Maple Leaf Flag decal under the new Netherlands paint job.

I think you have a laps in memory. To be clear we did not rent any Chinooks from the Netherlands. We did sell our Chinooks to the Netherlands. We then acquired used Chinooks from the US military for use in the sandbox. We absolutely did not rent back the Chinooks we sold. I can assure you that if you rode in a Chinook with the paint as you described, then you rode in a Chinook of the Netherlands military and crewed with their guys. Not Canadians.

It was hot and $hittty place. We all get confused.

Cheers
Moe
 
Last edited:
I think you have a laps in memory. To be clear we did not rent any Chinooks from the Netherlands. We did sell our Chinooks to the Netherlands. We then acquired used Chinooks from the US military for use in the sandbox. We absolutely did not rent back the Chinooks we sold. I can assure you that if you rode in a Chinook with the paint as you described, then you rode in a Chinook of the Netherlands military and crewed with their guys. Not Canadians.

It was hot and $hittty place. We all get confused.

Cheers
Moe

Thanks Moe. Ill admit checking the motor vehicle registration of the chinook was not on my mind as I was boarding. Lol.

Tail wing definitely had the flag under the paint. Never met the pilot but the FE and tail gunner were definitely Canadian. This was in 08.
 
Yea the American insignia were painted over. Probably what you saw. Tac Hel is the place that my hair went grey over the last 28 years. If you had Canadian crew then you were not on Dutch choppers.

Now as for a new handgun. I have been serving 36 years. I am loosing faith that I will see a replacement before I time expire. I hope I am wrong. At this point I don't care what it is. Just something designed after I was born.

Cheers
Moe
 
Last edited:
And for what its worth, everyone is trying to build a plane to defeat the f35 because everyobe wants to be able to hold their own against the USAF. And if anyone has a plane that can go tow to toe with the F35 it will be shot down by an F22...you know, the plane that actually works.

Shouldn’t they be building a plane to defeat the F22 vice the F35 by that logic?

I love when people are so confidently incorrect in their positions. This right here is a great example of one of the largest problems with procurement; people with outdated, incomplete, or flat out incorrect information having opinions and attempting to weigh in on topics about which they know little to nothing.
 
Last edited:
Yea the American insignia were painted over. Probably what you saw. Tac Hel is the place that my hair went grey over the last 28 years. If you had Canadian crew then you were not on Dutch choppers.

Now as for a new handgun. I have been serving 36 years. I am loosing faith that I will see a replacement before I time expire. I hope I am wrong. At this point I don't care what it is. Just something designed after I was born.

Cheers
Moe

Ill admit there is lots I dont know about our tactical helicopters. One thing I do know is what the canadian flag looks like. I could be mistaken about the crew though. Maybe guys in dutch uniforms were wearing canadian flags on their shoulders as a joke, or a tribute. Stranger things have happened in the sandbox. Like Hawaiian shirt fridays...

As for pistols, Ive only got 20 years in, and have a bit more time. That said I dont think I am any more hopeful than you are to see a new pistol before I retire.

Likewise, I honestly dont care what we get. I have my preference for sure, but literally anything manufactured this millenia would be a win.
 
Shouldn’t they be building a plane to defeat the F22 vice the F35 by that logic?

I love when people are so confidently incorrect in their positions. This right here is a great example of one of the largest problems with procurement; people with outdated, incomplete, or flat out incorrect information having opinions and attempting to weigh in on topics about which they know little to nothing.

There will always be people woth outdated information and uninformed opinions. Ill be the first to admit my knowledge of military aircraft is amateur at best. One would hope that such people arent the decision makers and its a good thing for everyone that I am not involved in buying Canadas next fighter jet.

I am curious though that the last few major engagements that the US was involved with, Iraq, Syria, Libya, where a major air presence was used, both in air dominance and ground engagement, the airframe of choice seems to be some version of the F18

If I were buying aircraft for canada Id just buy a new version of F18 and be done.
 
There will always be people woth outdated information and uninformed opinions. Ill be the first to admit my knowledge of military aircraft is amateur at best. One would hope that such people arent the decision makers and its a good thing for everyone that I am not involved in buying Canadas next fighter jet.

I am curious though that the last few major engagements that the US was involved with, Iraq, Syria, Libya, where a major air presence was used, both in air dominance and ground engagement, the airframe of choice seems to be some version of the F18

If I were buying aircraft for canada Id just buy a new version of F18 and be done.

CameronSS you are referring to the F18 Super Hornet presently in service. As a civilian I would hope the aircraft they choose is capable of whatever role we think 20 or 30 fighters will have over our skies. I am surprised this has come up. Trudeau spending money on expensive military toys will send the CBC and it's followers into a tizzy for certain. It may come down to poking Biden's eye and buying the Swedes aircraft. Given the present political drift south of the border gently moving away from the US dependence might be a better strategic strategy. The Swedes are offering Canadian build and access to Swedish technology and what is said to be a capable aircraft.

Trudeau is doing nothing about spending a few dollars on new pistols so I will surprised if he is willing to spend money on new planes but who knows if the purchase is spending tomorrows dollars it might sound good to him. Hell we will get an email from Blaire telling us how he is keeping us all safe....

Take Care
Bob
 
Question: in a contested air-space, if a F35 goes up against a Grippen / Swede aircarft who wins?
Australian trials showed that the F18 was no match for the F35. They made the good decision of buying the radar jamming version of the F18 Super Hornet to back up the F35. I don't think it's in Canada's best interest to buy yesterdays technology. Heck we wait sooo long to buy kit we better buy as close to cutting edge as we can. I want our Pilots to have the best available and not be at any disadvantage with a "near peer" opponent.

Sorry for hijack.

Rich
 
Question: in a contested air-space, if a F35 goes up against a Grippen / Swede aircarft who wins?
Australian trials showed that the F18 was no match for the F35. They made the good decision of buying the radar jamming version of the F18 Super Hornet to back up the F35. I don't think it's in Canada's best interest to buy yesterdays technology. Heck we wait sooo long to buy kit we better buy as close to cutting edge as we can. I want our Pilots to have the best available and not be at any disadvantage with a "near peer" opponent.

Sorry for hijack.

Rich

It truly depends on what the government expects from the RCAF. Using the current frame of reference all one needs to do to find the answer is look at is the Finnish fighter replacement project. Same aircraft being replaced. Same contenders bidding, to include those who got fed up with our BS and decided it wasn’t worth their time.

Funny enough, the same can be said of the pistols.
 
Question: in a contested air-space, if a F35 goes up against a Grippen / Swede aircarft who wins?
Australian trials showed that the F18 was no match for the F35. They made the good decision of buying the radar jamming version of the F18 Super Hornet to back up the F35. I don't think it's in Canada's best interest to buy yesterdays technology. Heck we wait sooo long to buy kit we better buy as close to cutting edge as we can. I want our Pilots to have the best available and not be at any disadvantage with a "near peer" opponent.

Sorry for hijack.

Rich

USN doesn't just fly F18, the carrier group has AWAC on station all the time, and the Growler is part of the team to spook the enemies defence.

It makes no sense to talk about just one aircraft. F18 with AWAC and Growler work as a team, F18 needs a bunch of other support to carry out its mission . The idea of F35 is to use less to do more. It is down to the number of sorties one can launch, reaction time of enemies defence, enemies defence coverage and who gotta fire the weapons first. An attacker that cuts reaction time by 20% means the defenders has 20% less time to react - once the weapon is dropped shooting down the aircraft is already too late. A 20% reduction in SAM coverage means enemies need to put more SAM system in place - the number of SAM is not infinite so this creates other holes else where ( run some Growler to spook one approach, and the main force goes to attack the less defended holes) As you can see, it is down to resource allocation in the big picture, like any war is all about. At a lower tactical level, it is stealing time from the enemies who gotta fire the weapons first, or before it is too late.

Canada doesn't have AWAC nor Growler type aircraft. Canada on its own has zero capability to fly in a contested airspace on its own. Most likely, with a CF18 or other non-stealth aircrafts, the only use of Canada is being the bait in an attack. Ie, countries with F35 will run the main attack force, people with non-stealth aircrafts and old electronics like CF18 will be the physical bait ( in place of Growler that uses electronic spooks) aka sacrificial lambs.

If Canada is just content with keeping the aircrafts in Canada and just do peace time interceptions, whatever aircraft is fine. In a real conflict without AWAC help from the US, the attacker will take down all the interceptors BYVR - whether it is Gripen, F18.....and the CAF will never have enough aircrafts and missiles in inventory to with stand more than one or two waves of bomber attack. And with hypersonic nuclear cruise missile, it is probably futile to even scramble from land. yes, that's another thing, buying aircrafts without a healthy missile inventory is useless too,
 
greentips,

You are just scratching the surface on this complex issue. That said, our pilots are safer and more capable in the F35....with a little help from our friends!

Rich
 
From 1990 to 2000 we went from just shy of 2% to just over 1% of GDP (those were very lean years as some remember - thank-you Cretton).

During the largely conservative governments from 2000 to 2010 there is considerable added spending (bulk of it presumably to upgrade equipment and keep Op tempo in A-stan), but our GDP went up as well, so the per GDP spending remained largely unchanged from the downward trend starting in 1990s.

1 to 1.3% of GDP, considering the current world environment is deplorable and our allies know it. We should be spending at least double on our defence establishment.

While that may make liebral heads explode, consider how much our government just GIVES AWAY cash as foreign aid.
In 2019 it was drastically increased to an estimated $6.6B, compared to our defence budget of $22.9B.
So that means we spend ~25-30% of our defence budget on some truly unworthy countries such as Ethiopia, Mali and the Congo. Thankfully the LIEbrals drastically reduced their handouts to China in 2019, but they too were still given cash.
It makes me sick thinking about it.


https_://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-spending-defense-budget
http_://cidpnsi.ca/canadas-foreign-aid-2012-2/
 
Back
Top Bottom