CFET BCL Siberian 4000 Round Final Report

It seems that the rifle simply did not work well with magazines from a variety of manufacturers. Many of the stoppages appear to have been magazine related. The magazine is a key critical component of any repeating firearm system. If it doesn't work well with available magazines, it isn't much use. That is a serious, fundamental problem. There does not appear to be a positive magazine stop - using the magazine as a monopod is a standard technique. Lack of a magazine stop is a serious design shortcoming.
Was there analysis of the causes of the various malfunctions? For example, why were there light primer strikes? Why was the bolt locking open when there were still rounds in the magazine?
 
tiriaq said:
It seems that the rifle simply did not work well with magazines from a variety of manufacturers. Many of the stoppages appear to have been magazine related. The magazine is a key critical component of any repeating firearm system. If it doesn't work well with available magazines, it isn't much use. That is a serious, fundamental problem. There does not appear to be a positive magazine stop - using the magazine as a monopod is a standard technique. Lack of a magazine stop is a serious design shortcoming.
Was there analysis of the causes of the various malfunctions? For example, why were there light primer strikes? Why was the bolt locking open when there were still rounds in the magazine?
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That would be something a normal person would do; at least attempt to figure out what caused a failure, and figure out what they can do to prevent it in the future. To just tally up failure after failure from the same cause without doing anything about it is kind of weird to me. They claim to be conducting tests for the benefit of the average Canadian, but don't seem to act the way the average Canadian would in the same situation. I shoot with a lot of people (Design stages and RO quads for 3-gun here in Calgary, run steel challenge matches), and I don't know of ANYONE that identifies a failure method, and then just continues on without changing anything while still getting that same failure. I have a buddy with a Siberian; we identified early that it just does NOT like cross mags. Over insertion, feeding problems, etc. He ditched those mags and bought some steel E-Lander mags, which run great. Is it ideal that the gun won't run EVERY mag? No, not at all. It's a downfall for sure, and hopefully they solve the obvious magazine over insertion issue, but there are things that can be done on the current gen rifles to at least reduce the number of stoppages. It doesn't address the rest of them, but it seems like a large portion were magazine related.
 
Well my experience with the NEA-15 was not a good one and all they had to do was copy an already proven existing and well tested design. So if BCL is anything like NEA then good luck with a different design. I tried a second time and purchased the BCL MRX Bison. What could go wrong with a bolt action, surely this will be reliable. Wrong again. This was my last time and won’t be taken a third time. My over 100 year old model 8 would make this youngster look bad.
 
I need to re-read their report, but if they sent the rifle in for warranty three times they clearly were trying to get the issues fixed. Taking things apart and analysing/tweaking them is a great way to have your warranty voided. It shouldn't be the customer's responsibility to make a $2k rifle run right with the most common magazines in Canada.

A poorly made/designed right side bolt catch and lack of magazine stop is bad engineering. If that was a one-off lemon, then not replacing the rifle after all those failures is a bad look on BCL.

When I clicked on the report I honestly hoped this gun would be similar to/better than the WK181 - maybe not perfect, but be on the positive side of mediocre. A $2k rifle that averaged a stoppage every 21 rounds over 4000 rounds is not defensible.
 
Gatehouse said:
I thought this dirt test was pretty fun. He really packed it in there!

It's at about 9:50

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This guy is complaining about the finish and wear on the bolt after ~2600 rounds and throwing dirt in the action.
Dirt, sand and debris is an abrasive, so what was his expectation? :rolleyes:
 
beltfed said:
This guy is complaining about the finish and wear on the bolt after ~2600 rounds and throwing dirt in the action.
Dirt, sand and debris is an abrasive, so what was his expectation? :rolleyes:
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Are you so ignorant to think no cleaning was involved? This man is a machinist of many years and knows what he is talking about, the context is all provided and yet, the coping is off the charts. Its okay to like a gun that objectively is not good. Thats fine, but don't pretend like it is good when it isn't, it looks very silly and doesn't do well for credibility
 
koopa1333 said:
Are you so ignorant to think no cleaning was involved? This man is a machinist of many years and knows what he is talking about, the context is all provided and yet, the coping is off the charts. Its okay to like a gun that objectively is not good. Thats fine, but don't pretend like it is good when it isn't, it looks very silly and doesn't do well for credibility
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I watched the video, did you?
He was packing the action with soil and then immediately fired the rifle repeatedly until he experienced stoppages.
Fine granules of soil and sand are an abrasive, and that much debris introduced into the action would undoubtedly cause a stoppage or worse on any rifle.
In fact, it could introduce a a situation where it could be cause for an out of battery detonation.
He may well be a 'machinist of many years and knows what he is talking about' but he is, in my experience and from what I saw in that video, an idiot none the same.

This nonsense of 'coping' is an infantile retort to a valid observation.
If you think I'm 'coping' as you put it you can review my past comments on BCL / NEA products on this website and see that I'm no fan of their product or quality control.
 
Desjard said:
Canadian manufacturers just gouge us because they can. It could be cheaper.
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While I certainly think that is a factor, you could remove all Canadian manufactured guns and you'd still be in the same place - the guns under $2000 do not have good reputations for reliability (I'm thinking Keltec RDB and SU16 specifically, as well as Norinco T97... Can't think of much else in the sub-$2k range that is an NR 556 semi auto but isn't Canadian Made). Jump up to $2500-3000 and the options really start to open up though.

beltfed said:
I watched the video, did you?
He was packing the action with soil and then immediately fired the rifle repeatedly until he experienced stoppages.
Fine granules of soil and sand are an abrasive, and that much debris introduced into the action would undoubtedly cause a stoppage or worse on any rifle.
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These sorts of tests (mud, dirt, etc) are not exactly a new idea in the gun world... Obviously there is going to be some possible damage caused, but its not like hunting or competitions are done in nice clean dust-free, dirt-free environment.
 
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CFET said:
We've no reason to believe it was a "lemon".

It's important to understand that they didn't know which rifle they sold was going to be tested or which warranty return was the test rifle.

So we attained the rifle but didn't give the same person's details when discussing it with them as we did when registering the rifle.

Thus even with all the stoppage info being provided to them their warranty returns failed
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At this point I’m certain this is what Bcl’s shop looks like,

pathway-orange-orchard-large-trees-260nw-1756052696.jpg
 
Suther said:
These sorts of tests (mud, dirt, etc) are not exactly a new idea in the gun world... Obviously there is going to be some possible damage caused, but its not like hunting or competitions are done in nice clean dust-free, dirt-free environment.
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You certainly have a penchant for stating the obvious. Do you really believe people have as large a reading and comprehension problem as big as your post count suggests?

The point I was originally making was that the person doing the review in that video first packed up the rifle with dirt, ran it and then stated in his summary as a 'con' to the rifle that the bolt finish was adversely worn and possibly damaged and perhaps BCL should warranty the rifle. Let's deliberately induce damage and then blame it on the manufacturer...
 
beltfed said:
You certainly have a penchant for stating the obvious. Do you really believe people have as large a reading and comprehension problem as big as your post count suggests?

The point I was originally making was that the person doing the review in that video first packed up the rifle with dirt, ran it and then stated in his summary as a 'con' to the rifle that the bolt finish was adversely worn and possibly damaged and perhaps BCL should warranty the rifle. Let's deliberately induce damage and then blame it on the manufacturer...
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If I'm reading it all correctly, I think people are just pointing out that these malfunctions were NOT counted in the tally and that the gun was cleaned afterwards. So you see a handful of rounds fired in those conditions. That should NOT cause the damage seen in the gun due to likely the heat treating process which there are known issues with on some components. You are seemingly purposefully avoiding the context to drive a false narrative, maybe I am reading you wrong but it does seem like you're ignoring everything around the "dirt test" which is not even a part of the CFET report.
 
S3RVO said:
Interesting that Sterling Arms and The Shooting Edge donated half the ammo for this test
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That says a lot.

I have no beef in this since I sold my Siberian. I would like copies of the communication between BCL and you, Post pictures or it never happened.

The mountain supply guys should focus on his business instead of arguing with potential customers.

When do we see his first EE feedback?
 
fritzhanzel said:
That says a lot.

I have no beef in this since I sold my Siberian. I would like copies of the communication between BCL and you, Post pictures or it never happened.

The mountain supply guys should focus on his business instead of arguing with potential customers.

When do we see his first EE feedback?
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We support better canadian firearms available for Canadians, I don't think we are alienating anyone with anything we are saying. We have over 400 reviews on our site if you'd like to look, we don't really sell on the EE as we need to track everything for tax purposes
 
I would also like to see sales invoices for the magazines used since one of your sponsors in this test is known to provide ####ty magazines. Show me sales invoices for the other magazines you tried, we all know that magazines are consumables, maybe you don't, so I just assume that you tested some used mags one of your dudes provides, no bashing intended, but since you are so thorough in your report, you should have no problem.
 
MistyMountainSupply said:
We support better canadian firearms available for Canadians, I don't think we are alienating anyone with anything we are saying. We have over 400 reviews on our site if you'd like to look, we don't really sell on the EE as we need to track everything for tax purposes
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add google where everybody can leave a review.
 
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