Choice of 444 or 45-70

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wallz

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I have talked myself into needing a single shot rifle. Now I'm stuck on choosing between the 444 or 45-70??? I will be reloading, so factory ammo is not at play.

Any one that shoots the 444 have any insight???? I know what the 45-70 can do and have shot them, but not the 444. From what I gather the 444 is generally with less recoil.

Pretty much what has me flabbergasted is the lesser recoil of the 444, but less choice of reloading bullets. Brass, powder, primers I can get, but the optimal bullet choices seem very limited for the 444 compared to the 45-70.

Use will be mostly for moose, elk, bear.

For the 45-70, the barnes 300 gr tipped tsx labelled as "458 Soccom" is intriguing, but I imagine the recoil is going to be intimidating getting it to a nice usable speed out to 200+ ish Meters. Or the option of hornady 350 gr round nose, and campro seems to make a 350 gr, shoot at the range and have fun bullet as well.

444: probably best to go 300 gr cast, or 300 gr nosler jhp, or hornady 300 gr xtp seem to be the best choices available. I guess there is always the 265 gr FTX flex tip option as well.


Choices, choices, choices!!!
 
As you are clearly already aware the 45-70 has more power and a wider selection of bullets.

Personally I'd go 444 for the uniqueness. It just has more panache IMO. But hunting wouldn't be a big consideration for me, I'm a fast-and-flat guy when it comes to hunting as most places I hunt have the possibility of 300+yd shots. If I was specifically buying it as a hunting rifle it would be hard to pass up the additional power available for the 45-70.

Buffalo Bore makes ammo for both, and they have a load going 2150fps with each, but the 444 is a 300gr bullet while the 45-70 is a 350. Interestingly the sectional density is very close between the two, so I doubt game will know the difference.
 
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I've been shooting the .444 Marlin for several years. There's lots of .429 bullet option for plinking since its the same bullets used in the .44 Magum. The choice is a little more limited for hunting bullets able to handle the extra velocity of the .444 Marlin. Hornady 265gr FP in factory ammo is excellent the 265 FTX isn't too bad. I've had great accuracy with the Hornady 300gr XTP and the Speer 300gr UC. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt bear, elk or moose with those. I've mostly been using 325gr home cast bullets lately. Has worked perfectly on a bear a couple years ago.

That being said, the .45-70 is the easy button.
 
wallz said:
Yea, I forgot to add I already shoot a 44 mag, and I like the 444 uniqueness as well.
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If you're already shooting 44mag (and even more specifically loading for it?) then 444 is the obvious answer for the commonality of the bullets.

Unless you're one of those guys that feels the need to have as many different options available as possible. If you're that kind of gunnie, then 45-70 to get another caliber in the stable.
 
Can you get brass for the 444 easily ? I'm sure that 45-70 brass is more readily available on the market. a friend hunts with a Browning single shot . me myself I'd try to get a Ruger single shot . good luck in your choice. and happy hunting .
 
I've got both and from experience I can tell you there isn't an animal on the face of the earth that would notice any difference when hit properly between them.

OP, it's your choice, if unique is what you want, fine, go for it.

Just remember what's happened over the last 4 years with the availability of components.

You don't mention what type of "single shot" rifle you're going to be using so you need to make up your mind on which rifle first, then what's recommended as far as bullets are concerned. Some rifle manufacturers will suggest cast over jacketed.

Jacketed bullets can be unobtanium and very expensive in both calibers in times of shortages. Cast bullets can always be made up by yourself in such times.

Casting good bullets that are the proper hardness etc then either lubing them or powder coating them is another whole learning curve in itself.

Are you going to use smokeless powder or black powder???

Many of the single shot rifles out there shoot much better with cast bullets over a charge of black powder.

Most people these days only know about lever action type firearms chambered in the two cartridges you mention and they're two different studies when it comes to accuracy, loading requirements etc.

My Sharps in 45-70 shoots 350 grn hollow point, jacketed bullets well enough to hunt with out to 200 yds, with smokeless powder. It doesn't shoot heavier jacketed bullets well. It shoots all weights of powder coated, cast lead bullets over a compressed charge of FFG black powder much better and would be fine for longer shots on game IF your eyes and skill set is refined well enough to make those shots.

My 444 Marling chambered rifle is built on a Martini action and it's a powder coated cast bullet shooter only. Not because it isn't strong enough for jacketed bullets but the bore diameter is a bit on the large side and it only wants to shoot bullets with .433 to .435 diameter well.

The one thing most shooters that are new to these rifles don't look into is the rate of twist of the bore.

Jacketed bullets will usually handle a tighter twist rate better than cast bullets. It's not a given though.

Usually rifles designed for cast bullets have twist rates around 1-15, again, not always.

Getting into these old and very interesting cartridges requires a lot of "personal" due diligence on your part.

Getting information here is a good start but you need much more than you're likely to garner here.
 
bearhunter said:
Getting into these old and very interesting cartridges requires a lot of "personal" due diligence on your part.

Getting information here is a good start but you need much more than you're likely to garner here.
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Oh I get it, and you have made some great points.

The information here is to top off, in case I have missed something, not as a start of. I generally do a bunch of research first. Looking at the rifles, then the optics followed with what I will be feeding it with. As much as possible knowing that each rifle will "like" its own recipe in the end and being limited to what you try and stop where its acceptable to you.

I purposely left out the make of rifle, as I have found from previous forum readings, that usually invokes a rifle make bias to the thread instead of the calibre discussion.
 
The 265-grain .444 Marlin load has a muzzle velocity that is almost 300 fps faster than the 325-grain .45-70 load, it generates more energy out to 300 yards and, when sighted in three inches high at 100 yards, drops three inches less at 200 yards than the .45-70.

444 will give you better range for hunting. As for a hunting rifle I would always favour a marlin lever over single shot especially when hunting in bear country. JMO
 
northfork said:
[FONT=&]The 265-grain .444 Marlin load has a muzzle velocity that is almost 300 fps faster than the 325-grain .45-70 load, it generates more energy out to 300 yards and, when sighted in three inches high at 100 yards, drops three inches less at 200 yards than the .45-70.

444 will give you better range for hunting. As for a hunting rifle I would always favour a marlin lever over single shot especially when hunting in bear country. JMO[/FONT]
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That 45-70 lever evolution load seems a bit underpowered?
 
As a guy who went 35Rem over 30-30 in my brush gun, I gotta say the 444 appeals to me BUT the 45-70 ammo is so much more readily available...

That being said, there's always hand loading...
 
I have Marlins in 44Mag/44Spl & 444Marlin and a CVA scout in 444Marlin
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I like both Marlins and shoot both regularly.
The Marlin 444 likes near max loads of VT N130 & Speer 270gn DC's. For regular 444 plinking/trigger time it's 240gn Campros & H4895 at about 2000fps.
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240gn Campros & 240gn Hornady XTP's

The only problem the OP will have with a 444Marlin is sourcing quality bullets.
With some bullets, you have to watch the case Over All Length(Swift 240, 280, 300gn and Sierra 300gn). Some of them are to long to cycle reliability in a lever action rifle. I picked up a CVA Scout in 444Marlin, to throw these 'long in the tooth', bullets.

Just as the component shortage started Hornady discontinued their #42200, 265gn FP and Speer stopped production of their #4461 270gn DC, 2 of my favourites.
I'm glad I stocked up when I did.
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Of the two my only experience is with the 45-70 . Mild to wild
The bullet I have had great success with is the 300 gr Barnes , you mentioned , but hollow point
drops black bears with authority
Never shot the 444 ,
the 45-70 is proven and by far more common , but hey, try something diff
you bet
 
Neither would be my first choice , but if I had to pick from the two , I would choose 45-70 . With 444 , you never know when ammo and components will completely dry up if it is not at , or near , that point already .
 
Well I pulled the trigger on the 444, and have a CVA scout on the way. Would have loved an Encore, but those are like hens teeth.

There are enough of the single shots available out there, 45-70, 35 whelen, 350 bushmaster, 44 mag, but I went the 444. Thats just the CVA, and I'm sure there are others like Henry, ruger, etc that I now know of with more calibers.

New starline brass on the way, Z3 3-9x36 glass, imr 4198, dies and some factory 265 FTX to get me going until I work a load up. Not too worried about the length of the bullets as they are single load, its more of what I can find.

Will start with the 265 gr FTX and 300 gr Nosler and possibly try some 315 gr cast. Will plink with the 240gr campro, as I already have lots.

Have an elk trip and moose trip in Sept coming up quick, so the factory rounds will suffice for now. Be a nice one to bring along for some tight bush work if required.


CZYHORSE: Let me know when you might want to let go of some of the "lead". Looks like you are set for a few lifetimes!
 
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