Choice of 444 or 45-70

wallz said:
Well I pulled the trigger on the 444, and have a CVA scout on the way. Would have loved an Encore, but those are like hens teeth.

There are enough of the single shots available out there, 45-70, 35 whelen, 350 bushmaster, 44 mag, but I went the 444. Thats just the CVA, and I'm sure there are others like Henry, ruger, etc that I now know of with more calibers.

New starline brass on the way, Z3 3-9x36 glass, imr 4198, dies and some factory 265 FTX to get me going until I work a load up. Not too worried about the length of the bullets as they are single load, its more of what I can find.

Will start with the 265 gr FTX and 300 gr Nosler and possibly try some 315 gr cast. Will plink with the 240gr campro, as I already have lots.

Have an elk trip and moose trip in Sept coming up quick, so the factory rounds will suffice for now. Be a nice one to bring along for some tight bush work if required.


CZYHORSE: Let me know when you might want to let go of some of the "lead". Looks like you are set for a few lifetimes!
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I would have chosen the .444 too. Back in the early '70 I considered a brand new Marlin in that relatively new caliber. I got talked out of it; "you need a .30 cal for deer and moose they said .30-30 they meant", bought a .303 surplus sporter, it worked fine, but the marlin would have been way more cool. That ship has sailed and doubt I will at this point of my life.

I did have a CVA in .223 for a short while. Nice looking rifle; hardwood stock and fore end, bull barrel (I think all their barrels are the same OD). I got rid of it for two reasons; I had a pile of steel cased .223 HPBT ammo that had lacquer coating; the ejector/extractor spring did not have enough power to pull the cases out as the lacquer would melt and glue them to the chamber.

The other issue was the extra s****y trigger. The rifle had the potential to be an accurate shooter with home loads, but the trigger made it impossible to achieve the accuracy it was capable of. The trigger design does not lend itself very well to trigger jobs.

You get what you get. Wish you the best.
 
I had same conundrum years ago with a.444 Marlin and 45-70 Marlin guide guns sitting on the counter at Wholesale Sports.

All of the rationale said to buy the 45-70 because of the wider range of options, but I went with the 444 and have never regretted my choice. Handloads with max powder of H322 and 265 grain Hornady bullets cluster neatly into less than an inch at 100 yards and I have never had to use a second shot on deer.

You won't be disappointed with it...
 
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I’ve had a # of 45-70s always great fun. Most single shots, but had a Japanese 86 and a Marlin 95. I still have 2. Only one 444 and didn’t keep it long. Cast 405 and 3031 work well in most of my 45-70.
 
northfork said:
None that I’m aware of off top of my head but OP indicated he wants a single shot. Never have seen the point in a single shot for a hunting rifle myself.
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CVA Scout II is available in 444. Re the "point in a single shot": weight, simplicity, challenge, and with some models, elegance. They are by far my most favorite action type. I love them. I have only ever planned on getting one shot on anything I've ever hunted with a rifle. It's worked out OK for me.
 
Well, I mostly carried the CVA 444 on my hunting trips. It is a joy to carry, and never felt under gunned with it or wanting a 45-70 instead. Plus I practiced up a bunch to reload for a 2nd shot it required, and have a decent method going, if ever required.

I have not actually been able to shoot anything yet, but working on it. I called out a 5x5 elk to 35 yrds, but needed 6x on one side. Great video of it non the less.

The next trip was for moose. Called out a 4x3 on the 2nd morning out. Needed to be immature, so 2x atleast or less on one side. 85 yrds.

Next morning I was able to call out a 9x7, with only double brows. Needed triple brow, or 10x on one side. I sat up on a stump when he was 65 yrds as I only had popsicle stick brush to hide behind if he decided to run at me and didn't feel comfortable letting him get closer. I was on my own on the moose hunt. Great video of the experience anyway. He walked by me at about 70 yrds and past were I was sitting. He was "huge", and the 444 would have made easy work of him had he been legal to shoot. Was overall a 6 min plus ordeal before he doubled back the way he came out.

I am currently working on a bird shot round for it, so I don't have to carry a 2nd rifle for when I run across birds. Should be a great option after I figure out the hold under with the scope. Using #6 shot.

I also have a bunch of cast 315 gr on the way to develop a load for it when hunting season ends, so I'll have it ready for next spring bear season. I might also try the 300 gr, nosler JHP. I have heard that these tear apart with the 444 velocity, but I found #2 shot fits perfect into the hollow tip. I will try these with the #2 shot inside the hollow tip, and see what they produce on water jugs and go from there. Yes, I have been doing a bunch of reading on the 444 in my spare time and followed a bunch of this on filling the tips, so they don't get filled with fir, etc and still open up easy. I'm hoping for the opposite and hoping they don't open so destructively. They are almost as a flat point, but still some hollow point cavity.

I know decent bullets are harder to find for the 444, but the option to use as a 410 for bird shot, and available cast bullets kinda pushed me towards the 444, plus I already have a 44 mag, so that just fit the bill better.

Nothing against the 45-70, but the combo of less recoil, 410 shot, and basically same ballistics with a slightly lighter bullet kinda tipped the scale to the 444 marlin.

Not worried about it being a single shot, as it will pack a decent punch, and hopefully rarely require a follow up shot. Comfortable to 200 m, and in the off season I will practice out further with it, to see what it is comfortable and capable of further out. 260 yards still shows 1155 ft lbs of energy out there, in case I ever need to go that far with it with the hornady 165 gr round nose I have for it now.
 
wallz said:
Well, I mostly carried the CVA 444 on my hunting trips. It is a joy to carry, and never felt under gunned with it or wanting a 45-70 instead. Plus I practiced up a bunch to reload for a 2nd shot it required, and have a decent method going, if ever required.

I have not actually been able to shoot anything yet, but working on it. I called out a 5x5 elk to 35 yrds, but needed 6x on one side. Great video of it non the less.

The next trip was for moose. Called out a 4x3 on the 2nd morning out. Needed to be immature, so 2x atleast or less on one side. 85 yrds.

Next morning I was able to call out a 9x7, with only double brows. Needed triple brow, or 10x on one side. I sat up on a stump when he was 65 yrds as I only had popsicle stick brush to hide behind if he decided to run at me and didn't feel comfortable letting him get closer. I was on my own on the moose hunt. Great video of the experience anyway. He walked by me at about 70 yrds and past were I was sitting. He was "huge", and the 444 would have made easy work of him had he been legal to shoot. Was overall a 6 min plus ordeal before he doubled back the way he came out.

I am currently working on a bird shot round for it, so I don't have to carry a 2nd rifle for when I run across birds. Should be a great option after I figure out the hold under with the scope. Using #6 shot.

I also have a bunch of cast 315 gr on the way to develop a load for it when hunting season ends, so I'll have it ready for next spring bear season. I might also try the 300 gr, nosler JHP. I have heard that these tear apart with the 444 velocity, but I found #2 shot fits perfect into the hollow tip. I will try these with the #2 shot inside the hollow tip, and see what they produce on water jugs and go from there. Yes, I have been doing a bunch of reading on the 444 in my spare time and followed a bunch of this on filling the tips, so they don't get filled with fir, etc and still open up easy. I'm hoping for the opposite and hoping they don't open so destructively. They are almost as a flat point, but still some hollow point cavity.

I know decent bullets are harder to find for the 444, but the option to use as a 410 for bird shot, and available cast bullets kinda pushed me towards the 444, plus I already have a 44 mag, so that just fit the bill better.

Nothing against the 45-70, but the combo of less recoil, 410 shot, and basically same ballistics with a slightly lighter bullet kinda tipped the scale to the 444 marlin.

Not worried about it being a single shot, as it will pack a decent punch, and hopefully rarely require a follow up shot. Comfortable to 200 m, and in the off season I will practice out further with it, to see what it is comfortable and capable of further out. 260 yards still shows 1155 ft lbs of energy out there, in case I ever need to go that far with it with the hornady 165 gr round nose I have for it now.
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I thought the 410 shotshell was a 45-70 thing? I could be wrong as I have never tried it. Maybe it works in both, but I have never heard about it with regards to the 444.
 
Mr.Rigpig said:
I thought the 410 shotshell was a 45-70 thing? I could be wrong as I have never tried it. Maybe it works in both, but I have never heard about it with regards to the 444.
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It is with the 444 brass, or 303 brit brass.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

You can also make the 45/70 shell into a "shot" shell as well.

Mine is a single shot, break open, so no issues of feeding to worry about as I would in say a lever action.
 
I was debating the same thing earlier but then they announced the 360bhmr and I decided to wait to see if CVA or traditions chamber it. I was leaning 4570 because I have dies and brass but I have a double rifle in 4570 already which made the 444 marlin just different enough. Shooting 265gr in the marlin and 300gr in the 4570 sxs I couldn't really notice a difference in recoil or the results of water jugs or the smack of steel down range. The 4570 can also be loaded from 250gr to 535gr or higher in a single shot
 
My choice would be a heavily loaded 45-70 every time. I’ve seen how well it does multiple time’s. Breaks bone, great holes in and out and not a lot of wasted meat.

I like breaking bone, always have.
 
Seems to me, in this age of inflation and scarcity. If you reload, pick either, if you don't reload then it's 45-70. At least you have some chance of finding ammo. Doubt that 444 is as hard as say 350mag to find brass, but I doubt it's easy.

The bullet I'd be drawn to would be a heavy .429 xtp. The 444 might have enough velocity to get performance from a partition. For either caliber, jacketed bullets are not cheap. Iirc I paid $62/100 for xtp for my 44mag carbine. Wonder what increase in ft/sec from 44mag to 444 would do to xtp performance on game. You would think, the xtp being the best hunting PISTOL bullet. The likely change would be more expansion, less penetration.
 
Had the 444 at the range today to try my bird shot. Closest target was 50m, and that was too far for the shot. I guess on chickens while out next weekend it will be.

Did print a nice 100m group though with the 165 gr Hornady. Surprised myself with 3 almost touching shots.

I think the 300 gr XTP will just expand too fast to be of any real effect in the 444, from all the reading I have done anyways. I have some 300 gr noslers I have manipulated to try, and some 315 hard cast on the way, I'll more than likely settle on shooting. Brass was fairly easy to find, and its more the decent bullets to find for it. I think I may have a handle on that, and will be loading up for it here soon. Have 300 brass now, so I'll be good for the life of that rifle, or mine.

Had to go try out the new 77/44 and its new trigger, so needed an excuse for some range time.
 
wallz said:
Had the 444 at the range today to try my bird shot. Closest target was 50m, and that was too far for the shot. I guess on chickens while out next weekend it will be.

Did print a nice 100m group though with the 165 gr Hornady. Surprised myself with 3 almost touching shots.

I think the 300 gr XTP will just expand too fast to be of any real effect in the 444, from all the reading I have done anyways. I have some 300 gr noslers I have manipulated to try, and some 315 hard cast on the way, I'll more than likely settle on shooting. Brass was fairly easy to find, and its more the decent bullets to find for it. I think I may have a handle on that, and will be loading up for it here soon. Have 300 brass now, so I'll be good for the life of that rifle, or mine.

Had to go try out the new 77/44 and its new trigger, so needed an excuse for some range time.
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Outdoor writer Brian Pearce did a big article on the .444 Marlin. He rated the 300gr XTP as a moose bullet. I’ve never tried them on game but they are very accurate in my .444.
 
I'd go with the 444, the 45-70 is probably the most over rated cartridge there is and most guys get it wrong thinking hard cast is the way to go.
 
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