Choice of 444 or 45-70
- Thread starter wallz
- Start date
Tried it on my double. They fire but you need a ramrod to get the cases out. The extractor rim on my 4570 passes right past the rims of the 410 shells
I have shot moose with both the .444 Marlin and the .45-70. Both make a lasting impression on moose for sure. The first moose that I ever took with the .444 was with a 300 Hornady XTP. The moose was shot at approximately 30 yards or so and although the moose died, it left a mess. The Hornady XTP - of any weight in the .444 is just not tough enough for the velocities that the .444 can drive it. After that experience, I went with the 300 grain Speer soft flat point and never looked back. I shot who knows how many moose with that load and it completely penetrated moose from just about any angle. Expansion was excellent and I only ever recovered a couple of bullets. My only experience with the .45-70 on moose was with a stoutly loaded 405 grain Remington soft point fired out of one of the original guide guns. After the smoke cleared, and my hearing came back (ported version), there lay a moose with a decent hole through both sides. The moose traveled a mere handful of yards after being hit. I think the .45-70 would be much more forgiving with bullet choice whereas the .444 requires the stoutest of slugs in order to be really effective on the big stuff. The .444 Marlin can be wound up very fast and does hit hard. Properly loaded, a hunter could not go wrong with either.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Found the article.
Wise thinking in my opinion on the lighter, faster mono.
turbogrouse
New member
- Location
- Sherwood Park
I enjoy my 444, mostly because its not as popular. If I didn't hand load, I would have bought a 45-70 because of the greater selection of factory ammo.
I loved my 444! Mainly as it is unique as many have noted. My thinking is one suits the 300gr bullet, the other 400gr. I shot cast bullets with unique for practice rounds and used 270 gr Speer gold dots for hunting. I did find 45-70 bits were easier to source, and there are many more molds for bullets to suit all kinds of shooting.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The old boy that I hunt with has one. He shot exactly one bear out of a tree, many years ago, and has never fired the rifle since, declaring that "it kills on both ends".
A quick run of the numbers shows that, while it is healthy, it's about 60% of the recoil using 300gr bullets at 2040 FPS with data from Pet Loads, as compared to my cast bullet handload with a 418gr bullet going 1950, also from Pet Loads.
It's never lit my hair on fire, probably because I've been a 45-70 guy for somewhere north of 20 years. I had a buddy that had one, not sure if he ever shot anything with it, but he did love that rifle. For the woodsy grand slam of deer, bear, moose, and elk I don't know why it wouldn't be just fine. It does enjoy the ability to plink with handgun bullets, where the 45-70 won't work quite as well (it'll work, but 45 pistol bullets are slightly slimmer than rifle bullets). But holy hell, pistol bullets are pretty much the same price as cheap rifle bullets so I'm not sure why you'd go to the trouble of worrying about that as a benefit!
So, I guess, they're both adequate for what a person will probably use them for. The 45-70 has a significant edge in terms of performance. The 444 has a wider plinking bullet selection but not as many rifle bullet options. 45-70 ammo seems more easily obtained but if you're a handloader with 50 cases you pretty much have the world by the tail.
So do whatever makes you happier. Or climb off your wallet and buy both. Pretty much guaranteed that your wiener won't fall off.
A quick run of the numbers shows that, while it is healthy, it's about 60% of the recoil using 300gr bullets at 2040 FPS with data from Pet Loads, as compared to my cast bullet handload with a 418gr bullet going 1950, also from Pet Loads.
It's never lit my hair on fire, probably because I've been a 45-70 guy for somewhere north of 20 years. I had a buddy that had one, not sure if he ever shot anything with it, but he did love that rifle. For the woodsy grand slam of deer, bear, moose, and elk I don't know why it wouldn't be just fine. It does enjoy the ability to plink with handgun bullets, where the 45-70 won't work quite as well (it'll work, but 45 pistol bullets are slightly slimmer than rifle bullets). But holy hell, pistol bullets are pretty much the same price as cheap rifle bullets so I'm not sure why you'd go to the trouble of worrying about that as a benefit!
So, I guess, they're both adequate for what a person will probably use them for. The 45-70 has a significant edge in terms of performance. The 444 has a wider plinking bullet selection but not as many rifle bullet options. 45-70 ammo seems more easily obtained but if you're a handloader with 50 cases you pretty much have the world by the tail.
So do whatever makes you happier. Or climb off your wallet and buy both. Pretty much guaranteed that your wiener won't fall off.
Wild_Thing
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- In the thick of it!
There is no wrong answer here.
Just a side note: I use 444 brass to make loads for my old ISHAPORE No.1. I have two, one in the old original chambering and one for normal .410 ammo. I am not at home right now and it escapes me which rifle I use the 444 brass in.
EDIT: It is the 3" one I use the 444 brass in. The original chambered one won't take 444 brass.
EDIT: It is the 3" one I use the 444 brass in. The original chambered one won't take 444 brass.
Last edited:
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
That really is the long and short of it.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Just curious, what are the opinions of the CVA Scout II? Thinking of getting one in 444.
Have enjoyed using mine. Really wanted an encore, but those are mostly impossible to find, so settled on a CVA scout.
The fore stock is always sitting a bit loose, but she shoots, so that's all that matters. Currently loading up a 325 gr cast and pushing over 2000 fps and going to try a bit hotter. Was getting 1" groups at 100m with factory hornady 265 gr.
The only other one that might be worth considering is a ruger No 1, but those are triple the price, and almost as hard to find as the encore. Then you are stuck having to rechamber as I don't think they made it in 444.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I checked out some reviews on YouTube and one guy was testing a 35 Whelen and accuracy was pretty good. Do you know the twist rate? Just curious if it is 1-38 like the older Marlins.
No its for sure not 1-38.
I think 1-20 twist. Was reading that some say it doesn't like the heavier bullets, but I was testing a 300 gr nosler and the 325 gr cast, and was pushing them both over 2000 fps. My best groupings on both were 2 shots almost touching and the 3rd was off about 1-1.5". Will be honing in on those powder weights and some more testing and bullet seating depths tests going forward.
Should be easy to get a 3 shot group in the 1" or less range, and then some testing for hold over at 200m.
I think 1-20 twist. Was reading that some say it doesn't like the heavier bullets, but I was testing a 300 gr nosler and the 325 gr cast, and was pushing them both over 2000 fps. My best groupings on both were 2 shots almost touching and the 3rd was off about 1-1.5". Will be honing in on those powder weights and some more testing and bullet seating depths tests going forward.
Should be easy to get a 3 shot group in the 1" or less range, and then some testing for hold over at 200m.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Good to hear. Are you using H4198 or RL7? Keep us posted on your progress.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I have always been using H4198 and have been meaning to try RL7. Another one that might be good is H322. Was amazing in my 450 Marlin.
