Civil War Revolver. New to cap and ball.

251251

251251

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I am looking to get into cap and ball revolvers. I have shot one once in my life, but other than that I am pretty clueless on how to get into this type of shooting. All I know is that it was a whole lot more complicated than just putting the cartridge in the chamber and pulling the trigger.
What has caught my eye is the Colt 1851 Navy revolver in .44. What is the cost of shooting this revolver after factoring in the ball, powder, percussion cap and patch & lube?
If you have any suggestions on what you would consider a better civil war era revolver, please let me know. Thanks for the help.
 
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I think it's hard to beat the old open top's ( 1851 & 1860) for natural handling & point ability. If you want strength of action get a 1858 Remington. State of the art is Ruger Old Army.
Stainless is a good idea if you can find it. Cost; dunno...pretty cheap I'd guess. Takes forever to get 50 rd's shot off.
Other folks will be sure to chip in with their 2 cents.
I`ve had good luck with Pietta`s from Marstar
 
The 1851 Navy was not chambered in .44, at the time there were Dragoons with a larger frame in .44 as well as a small number of the massive Walker"s which were reputed to be the most powerful handgun until the introduction of the .357 in the early 1930's.
There are reproductions of the 1851 chambered for .44 cal.using the same size frame but with larger rebated cylinders and the frame is cut out to make room for the larger diameter,they also have shorter forcing cones. Pietta makes these "fantasy" guns and they are fun to shoot as they are a lot more powerful than the historically correct .36 cal.
If you want a historically correct small frame revolver get an 1860 Army in .44 cal.
Assuming you can buy the supplies locally the cost per round for a .44 cal using real black powder is:

Cap = 6 cents (less if you buy 1000 at a time)
Powder ( 25 grains ) = 11 cents @ $25/Pound
Ball = 8 cents ( less if you cast your own )
Total per shot = about 25 cents....less if you buy in bulk.

If you include your time and effort the cost goes up about X10 but a typical day at the range will cost less than $10 in supplies.

Hey tokguy have you found a cap and ball that you like yet???
 
Sticking with my 1851 Pietta 44, Skinny. I've still got the R.O.A. but it's getting dusty, LOL.
Aquired a 1889 Colt in 41 L.C. & a .357 Pietta SAA in the same week!
No addiction problems here...yeah right.
OP; put down the RPAL and take up golf or something cheaper, hurry!
 
I have a replica Remington 1858 in .44 and I really like it... It is a better design than the colts strength wise and you can easilly remove the cylinder to reload quickly with a second cylinder...
 
Since you fellows are helping out a newbie, perhaps you can inform me a bit. I managed to get hold of a Ruger Old Army, but up in this part of the woods black powder isn't easily come by (shipping the stuff is a problem apparently).

I have been using Triple 7, which works well, but no where have I been able to find out if it is at all corrosive. Hodgdon claims simple water clean-up, but is it safe to leave the residue in the gun for any length of time?
 
LCruiser said:
Since you fellows are helping out a newbie, perhaps you can inform me a bit. I managed to get hold of a Ruger Old Army, but up in this part of the woods black powder isn't easily come by (shipping the stuff is a problem apparently).

I have been using Triple 7, which works well, but no where have I been able to find out if it is at all corrosive. Hodgdon claims simple water clean-up, but is it safe to leave the residue in the gun for any length of time?
Click to expand...

No...
 
I do believe that Triple 7 is as or more corrosive than black powder. I know that it has a more difficult ring of crud just in front of the powder charge which is a B*#*#% to clean. I much prefer BP. When you find BP just buy a large quantity.
 
251251 said:
I am looking to get into cap and ball revolvers. I have shot one once in my life, but other than that I am pretty clueless on how to get into this type of shooting. All I know is that it was a whole lot more complicated than just putting the cartridge in the chamber and pulling the trigger.
What has caught my eye is the Colt 1851 Navy revolver in .44. What is the cost of shooting this revolver after factoring in the ball, powder, percussion cap and patch & lube?
If you have any suggestions on what you would consider a better civil war era revolver, please let me know. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Cap and ball revolver...well, there are a couple of things you should know.

People tend to put a wad of lard or similar in front of the bullets when loaded, to cut down on the risk of chainfires. Yes, people have had the whole thing go off at once. :eek:
Thus, loading it is a multi-stage process that involves more than a few steps.

Also, the couple I've fired, the bp builds up into such a mess throughout everything, that the gun actually seizes up after like 5 rounds! Yep, actually can't #### it anymore.

I've also seen the cylinder wedge on the Armi San Marco Colt 1860 open top repros bend into a U shape, such was the craptastic metallurgy.

Thus, in my limited experience, they're not the easiest things to operate. There's a reason why they invented cartridges and smokeless powder.

If you enjoy high maintenance items they are the thing for you!
 
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LCruiser said:
Since you fellows are helping out a newbie, perhaps you can inform me a bit. I managed to get hold of a Ruger Old Army, but up in this part of the woods black powder isn't easily come by (shipping the stuff is a problem apparently).

I have been using Triple 7, which works well, but no where have I been able to find out if it is at all corrosive. Hodgdon claims simple water clean-up, but is it safe to leave the residue in the gun for any length of time?
Click to expand...

777 is worse then real black powder

id clean it like you would corrosive ammo or with a solvent made for corrosive ammo or blackpowder
 
cantom said:
Cap and ball revolver...well, there are a couple of things you should know.

People tend to put a wad of lard or similar in front of the bullets when loaded, to cut down on the risk of chainfires. Yes, people have had the whole thing go off at once. :eek:
Thus, loading it is a multi-stage process that involves more than a few steps.

Also, the couple I've fired, the bp builds up into such a mess throughout everything, that the gun actually seizes up after like 5 rounds! Yep, actually can't #### it anymore.

I've also seen the cylinder wedge on the Armi San Marco Colt 1860 open top repros bend into a U shape, such was the craptastic metallurgy.

Thus, in my limited experience, they're not the easiest things to operate. There's a reason why they invented cartridges and smokeless powder.

If you enjoy high maintenance items they are the thing for you!
Click to expand...

bending hmm sounds like a over charge some frames are stronger then others
just becuse its the same cal dose not mean you can use the same charge

a remington 1858 vs a open top :eek: the same charge should not be used
 
LCruiser said:
Since you fellows are helping out a newbie, perhaps you can inform me a bit. I managed to get hold of a Ruger Old Army, but up in this part of the woods black powder isn't easily come by (shipping the stuff is a problem apparently).

I have been using Triple 7, which works well, but no where have I been able to find out if it is at all corrosive. Hodgdon claims simple water clean-up, but is it safe to leave the residue in the gun for any length of time?
Click to expand...

Here is a link to a forum in which a guy did a two week experiment to find out if 777 is corrosive using a revolver...his conclusion...no it isn't.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-128152.html
 
I find Pydrodex is cleaner than 777. And I also find the R.O.A. to be a PITA to clean compared to colts. Yeah it's cool to be pushing 220 grain conical's out of the R.O.A. at mach speeds, but after the thrill wears off I'd just a soon shoot my Navy. Points better & I just shoot it better. Cleans up way easier.
Let's face it we can't shoot off range anyhow so the closed frame / massive power argument is a moot point.
Try to handle a couple before you drop your coin; try a couple open tops out; I'm a big fan of their natural point-ability.
 
I have owned an 1858 remington clone by Uberti. It was fun to shoot and I felt it was more solid than the open tops I had seen.

I now own a Ruger Old Army in stainless. Thanks to JDC. He still has several available. I think it is a better gun that the 1858. Much stronger. Typical of Ruger to make a good thing better.

As for cleaning, it does not matter whether it is BP, 777, or some other substitute. Treat is all the same way and clean with hot soapy water when you get home. I submerge my gun in it. Then I take it apart and clean it thoroughly within a couple of hours of getting home.

Make sure you use a good rust preventative like g96 after cleaning. Use compressed air to force the water out of the cracks.

Welcome to the club. BP is more fun than anything else I do with guns.
 
Thanks for the Triple 7 warning.
There are times when I just go through 12 or 18 shots, but I always run boiling water through the barrel and cylinder chambers. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time.
I wish Hodgdon would be a little more up front about this potential problem.
 
tbrwlf,

Wish my OA was stainless. A friend had one and all he did after shooting was remove the grips and put it in the dishwasher. Not too sure if that's the route I'd go, but there are days when I'd be quite tempted.
 
Here is what you will find with black powder substitutes....the trade off is carbon residue for corrosive components ,Black Powder burns much cleaner than the substitutes in terms of carbon deposits but the substitutes leave a huge carbon deposit. Expect to have to totally disassemble your gun if you use the substitute's the carbon is more than you want to deal with go Black Powder.
 
I've been shooting a pair of Uberti Remington clones in cowboy action matches for well over a year now.

First off, to the OP. You don't use patches with C&B guns. Well.. actually apparently you can but it's far more the norm to use oversize balls that swage off a small ring of lead when being pushed into the chambers. For example a .44 would use .454 or 457 balls depending on the actual chamber sizes of the gun in question.

As for lard or other lubes over the ball to seal off any gaps I've used a method I found on Youtube where the fellow puts a single drop of vegtable oil into the chamber to ball interface. The oil wicks itself aorund the whole ball pronto and is a small enough amount to stay in place well. And it's no where near as messy as the lard or other grease like lube options. I've shot around 300 shots during matches and play days using this single drop oil sealing process and have not had any chain fires.

By the way, chainfires can also occur from loose caps flying off and letting flame gases enter through the nipple. A fellow over at The High Road had this happen to him. So pinch those caps or find nipple and cap combos that are secure.

As a bonus the veggie oil, I've been using Canola oil to be exact, leave the fouling in the barrel as a soft gooey "grease" like stuff that is easily washed away. And best of all when my cylinder begins to stiffen up on the arbor a drop or two of Canola oil softens and flushes away the fouling and I'm good to carry on.

I've shot 6 stages in a day so 30 shots from each gun and the guns are still OK to keep going at the end of the day. Typically I oil the arbor at the front of the cylinder once during the day to keep things rolling well.

Getting back to the original question. If you're the sort that enjoys interfacing with their firearm and a high final round count at the end of the day isn't a big priority you will likely enjoy black powder shooting. Especially once you get all the bits and pieces to make it easier with the loading process. Otherwise if you're fumbling around with inadequite loading gear it can be a frustrating process.

There's a lot of videos on You Tube about loading cap and ball revolvers. You just need to use the right keywords.
 
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