Civilian level combat training Alberta

Trap shooting is actually a very good training for leading moving trg. That skill translates.


Yup, during WW11 they trained fighter pilots how to lead when shooting at the enemy aircraft or Navy anti-aircraft gunners with shotguns. Now they spend more time learning how to fly jets and let the computers, radar and satellites to tell them when to shoot or aim their guns.

I really don't see the connection any more. Being up front and in the firearms community might help with recruitment though. I know the US Army for a long time sponsored a NASCAR team. Again, I suspect for more publicity rather then developing skills for future tank drivers.

I don't think any of the Officers who shot and shoot with us consider the experience helps with their "Training" or how to do their jobs. Those that do shoot regularly seem to just enjoy shooting and being out with the guys and ladies for a day.

Take Care

Bob
 
I don't know that there's that much training that's going to help in the real world. Mental conditioning is probably more important, as the technique is pretty straight forward. For example: I'm in Salamanca, Gto. right now. What a friend in San Miguel calls "Mexico's Baghdad". If I pop out to the store with my wife -- it's in the mid-30's here today -- all I'll have is a 5-shot S&W Pocket snubby. It's too hot to hide anything bigger and the Security Forces will potentially shoot first and ask questions later if they see one is armed. Nobody will give you a permit, so you have to get over that emotional hurdle by yourself. Arm yourself illegally? Or die like a dog in front of your wife when the bad guys come? Doesn't take much sense to work that out.

If one or two toughs walks up to us on the way into the store, how do I know they're a problem? The whole sniping idea of "picking them off from a distance" is naive, you won't know they're a problem until they're on top of you. They look like anyone else walking back to their car in the mid-day heat. When they pull a knife or gun and maybe take a quick just-slightly-short-swing at the wife's face to let you know they mean business you have to decide to surrender all you've got or just shoot them. In less time than it took you to read this. There'll be no "Shooter ready?" If you're like me, you were walking up to them "playing pocket pool" with your hand wrapped around the stocks in the firing grip.

It's POW - POW two headshots and grab the wife by the arm and walk back to the car saying "we have to leave, dear." Or give them money, or hope someone intervenes. But if you gotta shoot, you gotta shoot. It's more about having the Chutzpah to decide when you gotta shoot or not and being able to do it. No game or course is going to teach you. Come live down here, or Tijuana, or Juarez or just over there in Celaya for a year. You'll figure it out. You'll figure out if you can do it or even want to.

I mean, if you're not up to it, why kid yourself with courses? It'll be really close. Tactics won't matter much. Their coldness and indifference will shock you if it's your first time. But keep at it, you'll get over it. Or get seriously hurt. Don't you think it's sort of a First-World Innocence to think that some course taught by someone who's probably never lived in a violent part of the world will somehow enhance your ability to do it when the actual mechanics of it all are simple, straight-forward and pretty basic? Again: it'll be really close. Tactics won't matter much. They will be cold, indifferent and probably on the border of violence to put you off guard. Immediate response or peeing yourself are the best options available to you. No course will help you much, in my opinion, but it might make you feel better. Real life experience will help a lot if you can survive it. Everyone has to start somewhere.

I've been an IPSC/Director in Manitoba and Mexico. I've been an NRA Action Pistol Director in Manitoba and Mexico. I honestly don't think it prepares a person for this. The shooting skill certainly helps, but even PPC shooting will help with that. It's the huge gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" and how vicious some of the "have nots" who've gone bad can so instantly become that tends to almost stun the uninitiated. I'd think more on that than running around outside of cover going "tink, tink" because it will probably be startlingly close and you won't have much time to think about it. You'll literally be shooting at powderburn range. Most probably. *Gulp* (Sound of trying to digest an unpopular concept).
 
Exactly!
Thanks for pointing out, what for some is obvious. You might have added the mental issues that will never go away after such event.

Take Care

Bob
 
Exactly!
Thanks for pointing out, what for some is obvious. You might have added the mental issues that will never go away after such event.

Take Care

Bob

I had a thrilling 10 years running the combat courses and training clinics in Central Mexico for civilians during the very height of the Drug War. I never thought about it too much at the time but I have some observations you may or may not find interesting.

I think if the person involved in the incident remains in a dangerous place after the incident for a significant amount of time, this helps with their mental processing of what they experienced. Going back to some 1st World Pansyland where it will be difficult to even find someone else who has experienced your plight isn't going to help and there is nothing worse than being in a situation where little floricitas are trying to look down their nose at you in judgement. (I can only imagine what people who have successfully defended themselves think of the current crop of Politicised Canadian Crown Attorneys, but that's just too much to try to assimilate on a quiet, hot evening like this.) It seems to help immensely and to be very therapeutic to find a group of like-minded and like-experienced individuals. The Combat Clubs around here have several who have had to do the deed. Drinking with them, the beer tastes better and the laughs at the dark humor makes one feel like they've walked on the dark side a bit, but it is good to know that one is not alone. They don't show up to matches dressed in spandex and bobby socks wearing "team" shirts. They wear real holsters. They tend to stick to their own crowd and not easily make new friends.

After you walk away or drive away from the encounter, the first two weeks will generally be the worst. If you are identified, the fuzz will probably be the least of your problems. Some gang or other will also be out gunning for you and yours. The good news is, the violence level is so high that few crimes are resolved, and since you defended yourself you didn't commit a crime. Why wait around and give some snivelling, entitled professional pansy with a degree the option of trying to rule that it was? If you get out of the actual area, hide the car, dump your clothes and clean the gun and stash it deep -- the countdown begins. I think if two weeks have passed and the S.S. still have not come a-pounding, you're pretty good to go. It's those two weeks where you go to work -- not wanting to, but knowing that any change to your routine might attract the attention you want to avoid, that take a toll on one. Talking to anyone is difficult and you must be smart enough to know that casual friends are not real friends, you should probably not talk. You should not confide. You should be in "act surprised, show concern, deny, deny, deny" mode. Show no more or less interest in conversations that come up about the event than possible, hopefully there will be few. And count the days. And sleepless nights. One foot ahead of the other. If you go through the two weeks -- you're probably scott free. And just keep moving on. If you are armed during those two weeks, for God's sake carry something different. Do not go back to where it happened.

Months later, things like ordering yourself a new barrel for your snubby (or going to see if they have one in the bins at the Custom Shop), or a new firing pin and barrel for your PPK are diversions that might occupy your mind and help you relax a bit. You will get over it. Maybe paint the car a different color. Or just go and say that your plates were stolen and get new plates. Little, useless things that help seal the possible cracks your spinning mind develops since you're pretty much working through things alone. And hopefully, it stays that way.

That two weeks of not really sleeping and sweating through the days -- trying to avoid having a constant hangdog look on your face as you constantly ask yourself "Did I have to? Was there another way?" will be truly character building. But you'll get over it. It will always be there, of course, but you'll get to a point where you never think about it unless you let yourself think about it. It's hard to tell someone going through it that the two weeks of truly-sucks will build a great character further along, but if a few days have gone by and nothing's happened yet they're probably fine. And they've helped clean up a world where even the Crown Attorneys are no longer always on the side of justice and good. And the dark humor....they'll suddenly fit right in. I suppose there are many who can't deal with it but I never met any around here. I think the natural violence of the land and culture help with that: they don't raise so many pansies. And pansies, of course, should stay where they can call a Policeman if they need help.

I don't think any course taken in advance will help anyone get through the thing, though. You'll just go into your two weeks of hell poorer than you would have been if you'd skipped on the course. How's that help matters? My thoughts of the matter. Other's mileage may vary. Obviously, suffering through an event such as this in Canada -- where policing is much more efficient and Crown Attorneys appear to be more puckered than Mrs. Grundy -- would be heartbreaking and probably result in a loss of freedom. And for what? For cleaning up the streets. It's enough to make one ask "Why?" was Dirty Harry against the vigilante squad in Magnum Force, exactly? Because there it is.

Hey, that new ruling by the President of Ecuador, now there's a politician who gets it! Damn!
 
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Yup, during WW11 they trained fighter pilots how to lead when shooting at the enemy aircraft or Navy anti-aircraft gunners with shotguns. Now they spend more time learning how to fly jets and let the computers, radar and satellites to tell them when to shoot or aim their guns.

I really don't see the connection any more. Being up front and in the firearms community might help with recruitment though. I know the US Army for a long time sponsored a NASCAR team. Again, I suspect for more publicity rather then developing skills for future tank drivers.

I don't think any of the Officers who shot and shoot with us consider the experience helps with their "Training" or how to do their jobs. Those that do shoot regularly seem to just enjoy shooting and being out with the guys and ladies for a day.

Take Care

Bob

Things do not need to be a one to one analogue lateral translation. Relationships are 3 dimensional, like a 3D matrix.

It is like people who play video games are fast with their fingers and concentration, and their brains work with modern controls interfaces This translates to better drone pilots, monitors of signals.....and everything in daily lives like day trading looking at 16 charts and 1 minute candle bars.

And fast car driving - those car guys are generally better drivers in the military. And the military doesn't only drive tanks - there are so many vehicles from polaris light tactical vehicles to mid size trucks all the way to armoured vehicles. Guys who are used to "speed" make them better guys to deal with control things going at speed. They have different perception of things than those guys who do not drive fast or ride motorcycles. There are guys who failed courses because they cannot drive fast enough.
 
Things do not need to be a one to one analogue lateral translation. Relationships are 3 dimensional, like a 3D matrix.

It is like people who play video games are fast with their fingers and concentration, and their brains work with modern controls interfaces This translates to better drone pilots, monitors of signals.....and everything in daily lives like day trading looking at 16 charts and 1 minute candle bars.

And fast car driving - those car guys are generally better drivers in the military. And the military doesn't only drive tanks - there are so many vehicles from polaris light tactical vehicles to mid size trucks all the way to armoured vehicles. Guys who are used to "speed" make them better guys to deal with control things going at speed. They have different perception of things than those guys who do not drive fast or ride motorcycles. There are guys who failed courses because they cannot drive fast enough.

Totally. Driving in 1997 911 Turbos with MP5Ks and hitting steel in winter conditions should be a national sport. 240 kmh on ice going around bends with steel targets and tracers.

Alabama Fort Benning guys would suck ass at that.
 
Yet every branch of the US Military has a Marksmanship Unit with an Action Shooting team, whose broad mission is to compete in IPSC, IDPA, USPSA and Multigun competitions to advance marksmanship and gun handling techniques and then bring that learning back to the rank and file troops…Heck, the Marines actually have introduced new medal/ribbon awards for winning Civilian action shooting competitions…So it seems the professionals see value in competition as a training tool for soldiers even if the amateurs don’t.

I know a bunch of the marksmanship guys.

The units are constantly fighting for survival. People who can't and don't shoot don't understand what they contribute. There are people proud of their marksmanship badges "cool you only missed the target 1/3 of the time" trying to cut the funding.
 
I know a bunch of the marksmanship guys.

The units are constantly fighting for survival. People who can't and don't shoot don't understand what they contribute. There are people proud of their marksmanship badges "cool you only missed the target 1/3 of the time" trying to cut the funding.

I view cutting Service Rifle in Canada as a national security threat.
National security threats are to be dealt with.
 
Hello! I’m new to the forum and wanted to add my learnings that might help a few of those in BC like me following this thread. There are a couple really solid guys in Kamloops to reach out to. Start by getting involved with KTSA and join Tuesday night 2Gun! Also check out Veritac Solutions tactical training. In south area of Okanagan (Penticton) I just learned of MLKAbilities.com, they might be a great option based on the Promo vid I just watched ;) good luck!
 
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