Cleaning and ammo testing

Peecos

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Looking for opinions and experience on testing various .22lr ammo for accuracy. Do you clean the barrel between different brands and does the bore need seasoned with say 10 rounds of the next brand before testing for accuracy?

Thanks
 
Yes

I do exactly as you described. Shoot brand X, clean, send a mag of brand Y down range, let "cool" start accuracy shooting with brand Y.

10-20 rounds for fouling
 
First point is this is not worth considering if the rifle in question cannot hold 1 MOA at 100 yards on a calm day.

22LR rifles do not do well with frequent cleaning.

An aggressive cleaning strategy for 22LR might be every 500 to 1000 rounds.

Cleaning more often than that will typically do more harm than good.

Don't think you are going to shoot best groups with a clean barrel. The bullets are coated with a lubricant and you need that lubricant to build up in the barrel to be effective.

When you change ammo, you are now shooting bullets with lube B into a barrel that has already been coated with lube A.

In this case the barrel is lubed (at least with something) and over time will settle into lube B, but that is still better than starting with no lube and building up to lube B.

So to cut to the chase, don't bother to clean, just shoot 4 to 6 five rounds groups accurately on target and you can gage the change as the barrel settles into the new ammo.

22 barrels don't get very hot, so unless you are into 22LR bench rest, I wouldn't put too much thought into that.

Air temperature however can have a significant influence on what ammo will shoot well in your rifle, so you may want to keep track of the temperature at the time of testing.

Ammo that shoots well in the summer might not shoot well in the winter.
 
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I am with maple 57 on this one. Shoot a nominal amount 5-10 rds to season the bore to the new ammo, then try groups. Ps, the results may surprise you. my 10-22 likes cci blazer, my sons henry likes fed black, both the cheapest I can currently find and I am not on a budget!
 
22LR rifles do not do well with frequent cleaning.

An aggressive cleaning strategy for 22LR might be every 500 to 1000 rounds.

Cleaning more often than that will typically do more harm than good.

Don't think you are going to shoot best groups with a clean barrel. The bullets are coated with a lubricant and you need that lubricant to build up in the barrel to be effective.

When you change ammo, you are now shooting bullets with lube B into a barrel that has already been coated with lube A.

In this case the barrel is lubed (at least with something) and over time will settle into lube B, but that is still better than starting with no lube and building up to lube B.

Yeah...I'm more with Maple57 on this one. I use the pull-through (Patchworm, 20/20 concepts) cord with a patch after every shoot, just to leave a thin film of oil in the bore in case it's a while before I shoot again. I may even pull one or two of the "super intensive felts" (felt plug with fine brass fibers) if I see evidence of build-up inside the receiver. I consider that my reminder that the gun may soon required the bore guide/rod/brushes for a total day at the spa. I do know that these felt plugs don't do as good a job as the brush will unless I use a ton of them, so it's my "I'll clean it properly, soon" measure. I don't compete, and unless gopher shooting...I may go through 200+300 rounds per outing. I've never cleaned between ammo types with 22LR, but that probably speaks as much to my expectations. I haven't witness that making a positive difference to accuracy when I've tried it and ultimately...I'm out to have fun with my 22s. Not fuss over them. It's half the reason I love shooting 22s more than anything else!

I suppose a case could be made for this approach (more for centerfire if you ask me) but I personally don't think it's required, or worth the effort.
 
Looking for opinions and experience on testing various .22lr ammo for accuracy. Do you clean the barrel between different brands and does the bore need seasoned with say 10 rounds of the next brand before testing for accuracy?

Thanks

What you should do can depend on what you're going to be testing. Many shooters recommend "cleaning" between varieties of ammo, and that can be a good idea. It is probably not necessary to clean with a bronze brush between different ammos. It is probably enough to run a patch on a jag with cleaning fluid down the bore after one kind of ammo is tested, followed by a dry patch or two. This is not really needed if you are testing different ammo made by the same manufacturer, say, for example SK/Lapua, because they will use the same lubrication on their bullets. It's more important when you switch between SK/Lapua, for example, and Eley, or RWS.

To summarize, if your testing SK/Lapua ammos, it shouldn't be necessary to clean between different varieties offered by that manufacturer. So shoot all your SK/Lapua and then clean before switching to ammo made by another ammo maker. A couple of patches should do the trick to give the new ammo a fair chance to go down a relatively clean tube.

Shoot brand X, clean, send a mag of brand Y down range, let "cool" start accuracy shooting with brand Y.

10-20 rounds for fouling

You could benefit by shooting some fouling rounds, but the advice to let a .22LR "cool" before shooting for accuracy is silly because this ammo does not cause any barrel heating that will affect your results. It's not .17HMR or .22WMR, let alone centerfire ammo, all of which can heat barrels.

First point is this is not worth considering if the rifle in question cannot hold 1 MOA at 100 yards on a calm day.

22LR rifles do not do well with frequent cleaning.

An aggressive cleaning strategy for 22LR might be every 500 to 1000 rounds.

Cleaning more often than that will typically do more harm than good.

Don't think you are going to shoot best groups with a clean barrel. The bullets are coated with a lubricant and you need that lubricant to build up in the barrel to be effective.


So to cut to the chase, don't bother to clean, just shoot 4 to 6 five rounds groups accurately on target and you can gage the change as the barrel settles into the new ammo.

22 barrels don't get very hot, so unless you are into 22LR bench rest, I wouldn't put too much thought into that.

Indeed, don't worry about heating up your .22LR bolt action rifle's barrel. Benchrest shooting doesn't heat up a .22LR barrel either. While an inaccurate rifle doesn't lend itself to ammo testing, you'll never know if your rifle can hold 1 MOA at 100 yards if you don't test. In fact a lot of shooters with experience can and do find shooting MOA consistently a challenge even with a good rifle. In any case, you need accurate ammo to find out if you and your rifle can hold MOA at 100 yards. The idea that cleaning more often than 500 to 1000 rounds does more harm than good is just plain wrong. Cleaning with a bore guide, a good quality one piece cleaning rod, and proper-sized patches cannot hurt a rifle. Some shooters disagree about how often to brush with a bronze brush, but few completely eschew its use. If in doubt, use a nylon brush.

In any case, if you are testing bulk ammo only, ignore all the advice above and just load your rifle and give it a go.
 
I have been testing ammo in different precision .22lr target rifles for some years now. I do not clean between different brands. When I switch from brand x to brand y, I just assume that the first group shot with brand y will not count.
When I get home, 1 wet patch followed by 2 or 3 dry ones. After about 1000 rounds = cleaning with a bronze brush.

Gilbert
 
I have been testing ammo in different precision .22lr target rifles for some years now. I do not clean between different brands. When I switch from brand x to brand y, I just assume that the first group shot with brand y will not count.
When I get home, 1 wet patch followed by 2 or 3 dry ones. After about 1000 rounds = cleaning with a bronze brush.

Gilbert

You put it better than I did...but yeah, basically what I do too. :)
 
I was just thinking a wet then a few clean patches. But consensus is just shoot and ignore the first 5 or 10 rounds and record groups for the rest of the box and compare. It’s only had 50 rounds through it, shows great promise as ten shot groups were 1” or less at 50 yds with some 30 year old Ruko hp .
 
Cleaning a rifle is often viewed as a chore and perhaps it is one. I doubt many shooters would shrug off cleaning a centerfire rifle, even after only a handful of rounds. To be sure, CF has copper with which to contend and higher velocities, pressures, and heat. The need to clean is rarely if ever in doubt.

But is it necessary to clean a .22LR often? What "often" means can vary from shooter to shooter. Some may shoot thousands or tens of thousands of rounds and never clean. Some super serious BR shooters clean their rifles between cards. Most shooters are somewhere in between these extremes.

What do "experts" do with regard to cleaning frequency?

Steve Boelter, an experienced shooter, president of Anschutz North America, and author of Rifleman's Guide to Rimfire Ammunition, says they clean regularly and frequently. He says "I’m comfortable in the notion that clean barrels are more accurate, especially since it is common practice in every major rimfire event I have competed in and also attended as an observer. From Benchrest to Olympic position shooters, everyone (meaning those shooters who consistently perform well) clean their barrels, frequently." (Emphasis is Boelter's. See the excellent piece on cleaning rimfire h t t p ://www.ssvtexel.nl/index.cfm?act=files.download&ui=C5C9D865-2200-0A21-B5F5CF897974784F )

What needs to be cleaned out of the barrel? There's fouling from the powder (propellant). Primer fouling contains abrasive material that is important to remove. There's leading from the bullet itself and the lubricant used on the bullet. Some lubricant is wax and others are oily. And there's carbon that needs to be removed to reduce the risk of a carbon ring forming ahead of the chamber.

The best time to clean is soon after shooting because the fouling detritus is still soft and is easy to remove with a wet patch or two, followed by dry patches. That should be the minimum cleaning for anyone with a precision rifle. Anschutz recommends cleaning after every shooting session, with the intensity of the cleaning depending on the number of shots fired and the ammo used (some is dirtier than others). Anschutz says to clean in one direction only and when brushing never changing the direction of the brush within the barrel.

If you are shooting a plinker and don't expect or hope for match accuracy then a rigorous cleaning regimen and schedule will not be necessary. But if you are shooting seriously for accuracy you owe it to yourself to prepare your rifle to be able deliver its best possible accuracy each time you shoot. Regular cleaning will not guarantee smaller groups or higher scores, but as with so many things about rimfire shooting every little bit helps. And it certainly does not hurt to clean a rifle regularly. Do it properly, with a good bore guide, a quality one-piece cleaning rod, a good jag, a bronze or nylon brush, patches of the correct size, and a good cleaning fluid.
 
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Let’s keep this thread going. I’m learning a ton! As a new shooter, both arguments (cleaning regularly, vs not cleaning often) make “sense”. Now if there was only a concrete answer “the age old question” lol.
 
Almost hate to ask the question as I know there are a variety of opinions but as quikcolin said, I am learning lots.
So....thoughts on what to use for cleaning? Hoppes #9? Ballistol? Other recommendations?
What are people using for the wood of their stocks?
 
Well I don’t find cleaning firearms a chore, I rather enjoy it :) Don’t particularly like putting one back in the safe with at least a bore wipe to remove carbon. So maybe I’ll buy two boxes of each and run a test, clean after each brand and shoot for accuracy then just shoot and ignore the cleaning and record any difference. I to am learning lots from the rimfire world and always good to learn!
 
Let’s keep this thread going. I’m learning a ton! As a new shooter, both arguments (cleaning regularly, vs not cleaning often) make “sense”. Now if there was only a concrete answer “the age old question” lol.

No rifle ever benefitted from not being (properly) cleaned often. No shooter ever benefitted by not cleaning often -- except for the time and cleaning material saved. Having said that, a shooter should assess what his expectations vis-à-vis his rifle. A rifle that has no hope of achieving great accuracy because of its design (not every rifle is designed for great accuracy) may not benefit from a rigorous cleaning regimen. But a precision rifle like a Walther or an Anschutz will shoot better when it's cleaner instead of dirtier.

Another factor to assess is the ammo being used. If you are shooting inexpensive bulk ammo, then no amount of bore cleaning will render it accurate. If you are shooting top tier ammo, then it seems foolish to spend top dollar on ammo and be indifferent to whether the bore is clean. Even more affordable yet good quality ammo -- here I mean the SK ammo, the Eley Action, Sport, and Club, and RWS Club and Target Rifle -- will produce better results beginning with a clean bore rather than one that has last week's fouling still in it.

In the end, cleaning a bore is related to what is expected of it. It can't be harmed when proper cleaning methods and equipment is used.

Almost hate to ask the question as I know there are a variety of opinions but as quikcolin said, I am learning lots.
So....thoughts on what to use for cleaning? Hoppes #9? Ballistol? Other recommendations?
What are people using for the wood of their stocks?

There's nothing wrong with asking. What's wrong is soldiering on in ignorance, oblivious to suggestion and continuing to repeat practices that can be at best ineffective or worse harmful to the rifle/bore.

There are a lot of different products that can clean the bore effectively. Some of them you've mentioned. Others include Kroil, Butch's Bore Shine, Montana Extreme, Bore Tech Rimfire Blend, M-Pro 7 Gun Cleaner -- the list is long and I don't want to try to mention them all for fear of not including someone's personal favourite. Perhaps some do a better job than others, but I don't want to endorse one over another.

A very important thing to keep in mind is to use the proper equipment. Use a bore guide made for your receiver. Use a good quality one-piece rod. Make sure to have a good caliber-specific jag and brush and the correct size patches -- you don't want to get stuck with a patch that is too big. (I'm not a fan of bore snakes unless they too are cleaned regularly. After all, you don't want to be pulling old fouling through your bore time after time.) If you can't use the proper equipment you may well be better off not cleaning your rifle very often.
 
As it has been mentioned, competitive shooters clean thoroughly quite much and often. Olympic and competitive shooters clean lots but as I understand it, these people do not worry much about wearing their bore as they change their barrels after several thousand rounds. Me, I am not at that level and intend to keep my barrels for a lifetime, so I am going to stick to less cleaning. As said when I get home, one wet patch followed by 2 or 3 dry ones. I do a serious bronze brush cleaning only about every 1000 rounds.

Gilbert
 
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As it has been mentioned, competitive shooters clean thoroughly quite much and often. Olympic and competitive shooters clean lots but as I understand it, these people do not worry much about wearing their bore as they change their barrels after several thousand rounds. Me, I am not at that level and intend to keep my barrels for a lifetime, so I am going to stick to less cleaning. As said when I get home, one wet patch followed by 2 or 3 dry ones. I do a serious bronze brush cleaning only about every 1000 rounds.

The inaccuracy that may creep in after several thousand rounds (which is less than a case of ammo) or more likely tens of thousands of rounds are fired through a barrel is not caused by wear to the barrel due to frequent cleaning. Competitive shooters shoot a lot, quite a bit more than most of us can ever manage. Barrels for .22LR wear very slowly from shooting, not because of proper cleaning however frequent. Competitive shooters are skilled and experienced and have very high standards. They may notice a slight drop in accuracy after many thousands of rounds are shot. In any case, competitive shooters have a need and a vested interest in upgrading their equipment, including barrels, at every available opportunity. The same is true in just about every arena of competition.

Few readers of these pages are experienced and skilled enough with rimfire accuracy to be able to make a call that a barrel with 10 000 or 50 000 rounds or more through it has suffered a noticeable loss of accuracy. I've shot some old rifles that were plenty accurate as far as I could tell, including rifles previously used by competitors who put a lot of rounds through them. Very few if any of us shoot as well as seasoned, veteran competitors with deep pockets for the best and latest equipment, and we don't shoot the best ammo (at least very often) because we simply don't have access to it.

Rimfire barrels generally have a relatively long life. They are not like centerfire barrels, many of which have a lifespan of 3000 rounds, or about 6 seconds of bullet-in-barrel time (for more on this, see h t t p s ://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/facts-about-barrel-life/ ) Rimfire barrels only rarely get "shot out" and more harm is done by improper cleaning rather than shooting followed by proper cleaning.

Don't be afraid to clean your rifle. As Gilbert says, a wet patch followed by a couple of dry ones is what shooters should do as a minimum to keep their precision rifles ready to shoot well. After a lot of shooting is done, a more rigorous cleaning may be in order. If your barrel is wearing because of cleaning, you're doing it wrong.
 
Thanks Glenn. As usual, I really value your opinion and your contribution to this good forum is beneficial for us all.

Gilbert
 
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