Collecting and shooting antiques
- Thread starter mooncoon
- Start date
I beg to disagree with that statement; it may have been RCMP policy but it has never been law. When Fritze was president of the NFA (hope I got his name correct) I asked about the legal requirements for registering antiques that were being shot, under the pre 1995 system. His reply was that there had never been a law that defined antiques as modern if shot.
One of the few good things about bill C68 is that it defined antiques much more clearly. While I don't completely agree with the definitions, at least we are no longer stuck with such vague terms as shells which are commercially available.
cheers mooncoon
Mooncoon, here is a quote from a document that refers to the old laws... I think it is from '91 and may be part of C17.
'The following weapons shall be deemed not to be firearms:
(a) an antique firearm unless
(i) but for this subsection, it would be a restricted weapon, and
(ii) the person in possession thereof intends to discharge it'
I know this has changed now, with the new definitions of antique guns. One of the few positive changes I've witnessed in gun laws.
'The following weapons shall be deemed not to be firearms:
(a) an antique firearm unless
(i) but for this subsection, it would be a restricted weapon, and
(ii) the person in possession thereof intends to discharge it'
I know this has changed now, with the new definitions of antique guns. One of the few positive changes I've witnessed in gun laws.
If it is part of C17, I don't recall if that bill was ever passed and if passed if that definition was ever gazetted and implemented. If passed and implemented then I stand corrected. At the time of my enquiry, I think the head of the NFA was Richard Fritze who was active at that time as a lawyer in firearms cases. (I trust I got his name correct). His comment that (a) (ii) has never been law makes me suspect the definition was proposed but either not passed or not implemented.
Also if you read my thread in legalese under "return to prohib" the RCMP can write their own laws and enforce those without interference from the politicians so the shooting part of antique definition could be policy but not written law. This ability may have some impact on us in the near future because I understand that the RCMP want to increase the number of calibers that remove antique status.
cheers mooncoon
Also if you read my thread in legalese under "return to prohib" the RCMP can write their own laws and enforce those without interference from the politicians so the shooting part of antique definition could be policy but not written law. This ability may have some impact on us in the near future because I understand that the RCMP want to increase the number of calibers that remove antique status.
cheers mooncoon
Well, lets hope someone in charge wakes up and tells the underlings there are more important things to do than harrass folks who are trying to obey the tangled snarl of laws we have already.
If they have time to muse about changes to existing laws that govern collectors and shooters, I would suggest they are not being kept busy enough 'serving and protecting'.
If they have time to muse about changes to existing laws that govern collectors and shooters, I would suggest they are not being kept busy enough 'serving and protecting'.
Don't worry about the person that askes the repetitive question. At least he's asking... worry about the person that doesn't and assumes.
I feel like I've found a hidden club that I've never heard of before, and I'm wondering why I didn't get into this years ago. I've found a hidden passion for BP all because of fate. I've got a couple BP muzzleloaders that have been in the family so long that they're probably no longer safe to use. And picked up a colt 1851 at auction because the price was right, and I was going to flip it. I can't seem to get rid of it... These guns definately give you a respect for those that relied on them in the past, and makes you realize how good we have it today. You take advantage of the fact that when you pick up that box of factory ammo to plink/target/hunt, that it'll do pretty much the same thing every time. Loading powder/ball on the fly makes for a whole new world. Add to the fact that I can take a 150+ year old pistol, wipe it down and shoot it with no problems, speaks to a craftsmanship that's hard to find today. Aside from my Enfield I doubt that there'll be little left to MY collection in 150 years..
Maybe I'll have to get my muzzle loaders checked out by someone more experienced than me.
I feel like I've found a hidden club that I've never heard of before, and I'm wondering why I didn't get into this years ago. I've found a hidden passion for BP all because of fate. I've got a couple BP muzzleloaders that have been in the family so long that they're probably no longer safe to use. And picked up a colt 1851 at auction because the price was right, and I was going to flip it. I can't seem to get rid of it... These guns definately give you a respect for those that relied on them in the past, and makes you realize how good we have it today. You take advantage of the fact that when you pick up that box of factory ammo to plink/target/hunt, that it'll do pretty much the same thing every time. Loading powder/ball on the fly makes for a whole new world. Add to the fact that I can take a 150+ year old pistol, wipe it down and shoot it with no problems, speaks to a craftsmanship that's hard to find today. Aside from my Enfield I doubt that there'll be little left to MY collection in 150 years..
Maybe I'll have to get my muzzle loaders checked out by someone more experienced than me.
I am wondering if it would be good to have an Association of Canadian Shooters and Collectors of Antique Firearms (ACSCAF) or maybe an Antique Firearms Association (AFA) that would represent us within the CSSA and to the various branches of government and media. I'm not sure it is good to have a proliferation of shooters associations (divided we fall), so it could come under the umbrella of the CSSA (Canadian Shooting Sports Assoc.)
I believe that the law did exist for a time as it appears in Smokepole's post.
As far as shooting original firearms goes, there are a few issues to consider: The firearm came into your possession in a certain condition and state of preservation. Do you really want to infict additional wear and tear? This is particularly an issue if the condition is superior. With some guns, the amount of original finish is critical in determining value; with a Colt revolver, for example, condition can drive the value from hundreds to several thousands. Personally, I prefer a gun sound enough to shoot, but not so fine that I would have to worry about the effect of normal use. Then there is the issue of safety. No one wants to risk eyes or other body parts, let alone reduce an antique to broken pieces. I have experimented with detached, discarded barrels from guns. Blew a breechplug out of a double set with a proof type charge. Turned out someone had bubba'd the threads at some time. This is the only failure I have observed. Have also seen barrels with holes, cracks, splits, heavy corrosion. The stock has to be sound enough to accept recoil.
My first shooting antique was a cheap Belgian double, acquired missing its locks, for $4.50, in the '60s. I made a pair of locks for it, and test fired it with double charges. It was not in good shape. Nevertheless, I shot it for a couple of years, and it gave good service.
If you are going to be shooting an antique, I think that it is important that you carefully consider what you are doing, and act accordingly.
As far as shooting original firearms goes, there are a few issues to consider: The firearm came into your possession in a certain condition and state of preservation. Do you really want to infict additional wear and tear? This is particularly an issue if the condition is superior. With some guns, the amount of original finish is critical in determining value; with a Colt revolver, for example, condition can drive the value from hundreds to several thousands. Personally, I prefer a gun sound enough to shoot, but not so fine that I would have to worry about the effect of normal use. Then there is the issue of safety. No one wants to risk eyes or other body parts, let alone reduce an antique to broken pieces. I have experimented with detached, discarded barrels from guns. Blew a breechplug out of a double set with a proof type charge. Turned out someone had bubba'd the threads at some time. This is the only failure I have observed. Have also seen barrels with holes, cracks, splits, heavy corrosion. The stock has to be sound enough to accept recoil.
My first shooting antique was a cheap Belgian double, acquired missing its locks, for $4.50, in the '60s. I made a pair of locks for it, and test fired it with double charges. It was not in good shape. Nevertheless, I shot it for a couple of years, and it gave good service.
If you are going to be shooting an antique, I think that it is important that you carefully consider what you are doing, and act accordingly.
Incurable Collectoer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Canada, B.C.
As far as antigues go I buy them with the intent to shoot them, so I always buy ones that are in decent mechanical shape or can be fixed up, but prefer ones that I can shoot and not feel guilty about it, so none of my stuff is mint or one of a kind and all has seen various levels of use and abuse. I would prefer not to own a mint piece, than I would feel guilty for using it and adding to the wear but with what I have I experience no such guilt, only the joy of using 130+ year old guns. This way one can be a bottom feeder when it comes to collecting and still fully enjoy both aspects the collecting and research as well as shooting.
As some one just getting into the antique's I couldn't agree more ,the best way to avoid the rules being changed is to keep a low profile. To me this is something which has really renewed my interest in shooting, a couple of years ago it was the purchase of my first hand gun and joining a gun club, but when you have a chance to pour lead and visit with someone twice your age (or exerience) there is something important happening, for me it is the opportunity to learn something and maybe preseve a bit of the past. Just my opinion. Greg
It was my interest in antiques and the relaxed laws concerning them that got me back into guns after I almost got out of it ten years ago. I was fed up with the new restrictions (C17 & C68) at that time and sold off most of my guns.
I really enjoy taking one of my BPCR out - fewer laws to cramp my style. Antique guns are great conversation starters too. Must people are shocked to learn that guns built more than a century ago can still be functional. I guess we don't make too many things now that will last for that long.
I really enjoy taking one of my BPCR out - fewer laws to cramp my style. Antique guns are great conversation starters too. Must people are shocked to learn that guns built more than a century ago can still be functional. I guess we don't make too many things now that will last for that long.
antiqe firearms
there is a good piece on antiqe firearms in the cdn registry site . Go to it and search antique. there is a definition for them. mfg before 1898, c/f cartridges larger than 8.3 mm and !!!!!note that if it has a magazine of any type it is NOT exempt !!!!!! If I am reading this wrong please correct me
577/450
there is a good piece on antiqe firearms in the cdn registry site . Go to it and search antique. there is a definition for them. mfg before 1898, c/f cartridges larger than 8.3 mm and !!!!!note that if it has a magazine of any type it is NOT exempt !!!!!! If I am reading this wrong please correct me
577/450
jetrefueller
Regular
- Location
- Northern Ontario
My latest purchase I can only describe as minty but I still intend to shoot it. I
will however totally clean and oil it after useing it but I want the enjoyment of knowing how the first owner must have felt. Does anyone kno where I can find some info on the old Remingtons such as who they were sent to originally
or any background. The reason I ask is the remarkable condition this gun is in.
will however totally clean and oil it after useing it but I want the enjoyment of knowing how the first owner must have felt. Does anyone kno where I can find some info on the old Remingtons such as who they were sent to originally
or any background. The reason I ask is the remarkable condition this gun is in.
They don't have to be single shot only non magazine. Double rifles for example can be antique.
cheers mooncoon
Definitely a good idea to stand together and react immediately at the first sign of public discussion about antique status. I'd tend toward your idea of working within the auspices of the CSSA, rather than setting up a sub-group specific to antiques. This because I don't think we want to be responsible for raising their profile ourselves. We can "kill" two birds with one stone, perhaps, if we have a special interest group within the CSSA, but make sure that it's official mandate is low profile. For example: We could call it an "Antique Users Group".
I know without asking that you didn't mean this the way it could be taken, but I beg to differ just the same. Your appreciation for historical firearms puts you at the top of the heap, IMHO. You recognise the contribution these guns made to our history. You desire to understand each step along the evolutionary trail that led up from the spear and the arrow to modern firearms and weaponry in general. You appreciate individual pieces of hand-built quality. You derive satisfaction from knowing how to, and correctly using, these living time capsules.
You, sir, are no bottom feeder. I'll not suffer hearing you referred to as such - not even from you.
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