Colt Canada

KevinB said:
Frankly if they could sell to civilians in Canada -- they would make a FORTUNE
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I very seriously doubt it, the US export stats show exports of just over 300 AR-15s a year to Canada. That presumably includes LE sales. 311, IIRC, can't remember the year off-hand, maybe someone can find the document again on the web.

If I'm reading the ATF stats correctly, the TOTAL number of AR-15 exports from the US, i.e. LE, military (excluding USG sales via MAP and FMS), civilian WORLDWIDE was only 1,306 in 2004.

I know Dlask make a few AR-15s, but it's nothing to get excited about.
 
Canuck223 said:
My understanding is that hammer forged barrels require more expensive tooling, but produce a better finished product at a lower per unit price.
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Yes, the GFM machines run into the several 100k easy. But they will spit semi-finished barrels out all day.
 
greentips said:
Diemaco uses hammer forging, where the rifling is hammered on the inside of the bore by a set of hammer on the outside of the bore. The chamber is hammered into shape in the same process

Colt use button rifling- the cutter is pull through the bore to make the rifling.

The difference - well, I could not get into the technical as it deals with Metallurgy and grain structure, as well as the stress induced on the surface when the process takes place. What is better?? Ruger, Swiss Arms and Steyr hammer forged their barrels, while most American companies and smaller scale productions go with some other means.
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This article is a good read about the various barrel manufacturing methods:
http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart2.htm
 
cybershooters said:
I very seriously doubt it, the US export stats show exports of just over 300 AR-15s a year to Canada. That presumably includes LE sales. 311, IIRC, can't remember the year off-hand, maybe someone can find the document again on the web.

If I'm reading the ATF stats correctly, the TOTAL number of AR-15 exports from the US, i.e. LE, military (excluding USG sales via MAP and FMS), civilian WORLDWIDE was only 1,306 in 2004.

I know Dlask make a few AR-15s, but it's nothing to get excited about.
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What about the American market? I thought Americans viewed Diemaco products as superior AR-15 models as well?
 
I have a friend who used to work for Diemaco/ now Colt Canada...I heard lots of stories about this place..internal stories of course. :)
 
Cancer: It's not a matter of it being unprofitable in general. It's VERY profitable in markets other than our Canadian one. Too many hoops to jump through for too small a market.
 
sparrow said:
Man I had a scathing reply to your original post, good thing I saw this post. As Kevin said there is a whole transference of US technology involved. In my conversations with the CC guys, they would have no problems selling to civves, the simply cannot.
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Go ahead and give it to me anyways!
It will make me feel noticed.
I'm overdue for a good ball-kicking:dancingbanana:
 
Canuck223 said:
My understanding is that hammer forged barrels require more expensive tooling, but produce a better finished product at a lower per unit price.
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That exactly my point....... I read elsewhere that the lifespan of the button-rifled barrels found on Colt-manufactured M4s has 8000 rounds, while the CHF barrels on H&K's 416 lasts 15,000.

Therefore, if Diemaco/now Colt Canada no longer CHF their barrels, there are no reason for me die-trying to get one........

So did anyone knows the difference of price between the CHF and button-rifled barrels?
 
yeah -- I remember the thread though.

#### happens.

I still wish the guy had followed Tekkies advice and had a senior weapons tech have a boo at it.
 
Polyshot said:
That exactly my point....... I read elsewhere that the lifespan of the button-rifled barrels found on Colt-manufactured M4s has 8000 rounds, while the CHF barrels on H&K's 416 lasts 15,000.

Therefore, if Diemaco/now Colt Canada no longer CHF their barrels, there are no reason for me die-trying to get one........

So did anyone knows the difference of price between the CHF and button-rifled barrels?
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While hammer forging allows for longer barrel life, I have read that the stresses induced the metal can also be bad for accuracy.

I personally would prefer an accurate barrel that needs to be swapped out after 5000 rounds than to waste 15,000 rounds through an innacurate barrel.
 
Quiet said:
While hammer forging allows for longer barrel life, I have read that the stresses induced the metal can also be bad for accuracy.

I personally would prefer an accurate barrel that needs to be swapped out after 5000 rounds than to waste 15,000 rounds through an inaccurate barrel.
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Hammer forged are plenty accurate for a rack grade AR, and then some. When you read those post about them being less accurate than button rifled barrel it has more to do with accuracy potential than actual accuracy in practice. ie if you are trying to make a ultra match barrel, HF may not be your first choice. But it will no yield an "inaccurate" barrel simply because it is hammer forged.
 
Colt has offered to make cold hammer forged M4 barrels for the U.S. government (along with other improvements), but they have shown no interest. Interesting article about this in July Small Arms Review.
 
marky said:
Colt has offered to make cold hammer forged M4 barrels for the U.S. government (along with other improvements), but they have shown no interest. Interesting article about this in July Small Arms Review.
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No interest? IIRC the Marines bought 20,000 barrels (20" ?) off of Diemaco a couple of years ago. I believe that Colt was mighty pissed at them. Strange, how now that they own Diemaco they think the barrels are a good idea.

Who says that cold hammer forged barrels aren't accurate? Aren't the barrels in the Steyr SSG 69 built this way?
 
FWIW FNMI who makes the M16A4 and recent M16A2's used Hammer forged barrels. Due to the fact that you cant change TDP elelements (up until RFI) I'm curious where the Diemaco barrels went. The only weapons Colt makes for the US Gov't these days are M4's and M4A1's.

Secondy I've seen match performance from both Colt and Diemaco barrels.

I have been told that while CMF'd barrels are both cheaper, typically more accurate over the mean lifespan - but that due to the nature they can stress barrels -- and unless proper QC is maintained that bad batches can be produced.

I was additional told that Diemaco hammer forges after chroming ? I'd be intersted to here from Tekriter to see if this is true.

Having said that I've never seen a new Diemaco barrel that was not #### hit -- the majority of the problems being from troops gouging the crown by attempting to clean it after being told by an Officer or NCO in Battleschool who did know any better that it needed to be cleaned (of course I also saw a weapons tech in 1VP say the muzzle crown was part of the peel washer :rolleyes: )
 
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In my limited personal experience, I noticed some variability in Diemaco Barrels.
Back when the C7's (not A1) were still arriving brand new and unissued, our unit got them in 2 batches. The first rifle I used on the rifle team for a few summers was very accurate, even after the chrome started peeling out of the throat. All of the rifles from that batch seemed to be good. The rifle team then got a new small batch of unissued rifles. The one I used to win the Queens medal was one of these virgin rifles but it could barely group 4-5" at 100 yards. I only did well with it because I was confident in my zero's and wind corrections. I centered the group and didn't chase the flyers around the target. It was pretty funny when some people in the unit would ask me for the serial number of that rifle I had used, and later came back from the range angry at me because it didn't perform well for them!

I also recall being told that the spare barrels for the C9's were rifle barrel blanks that didn't pass QC.
 
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