Colt Expanse M4 or Bushmaster QRC ??

Fun thing is people Who decides what manufacturer suck often do it because they saw a couple of bad review. When I did research before going for the deal I found on a Bushy I searched a lot, most negative was people simply saying they wouldnt touch it with nothing to back the claim and then some real actual fact.
99.9% of what you'll find on the net is spewed off by morons who know jack #### what they're talking about and are just repeating ingorant drivel they've seen somewhere else. There's pretty much only one place on the internet where you can get reliable factual information and that's because that's where the industry professionals, aka american instructors and armorers hang out. I've been hanging over there for over 10 years.

I also recenctly made a search regarding the myth that lacquered steel case gum up the chamber. They fired 10k of 3 polymer and lacquered brands and 1 brass cased thru 4 BM guns non stop till they cannot hold em cause of heat and minimal cleaning if at all. 1 had a problem after 7k.
If you're talking about the Luckygunner test conducted by Andrew Tuohy, who I respect greatly and have talked with in the past, two of the four Bushmasters they got brand new for the test had barrel nuts that were only hand tight, they were not torqued. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

I'll highligh some key elements for you:

Barrel nuts were torqued to inconsistent values: two had been torqued to approximately 5 ft/lbs, while the other two had been torqued within the appropriate range of 30-80 ft/lbs.

Each firearm was broken down and inspected to ensure that it was within acceptable standards; this initial visual inspection did not reveal any deficiencies serious enough to be addressed prior to the beginning of the test. During the first range trip, however, serious accuracy issues were noted with two carbines – the Federal and Brown Bear weapons.
Both shot groups of over 5MOA, or over 5 inches at 100 yards, out of the box. It should be noted that ten shot groups were fired for all accuracy testing in this article, and the results are not directly comparable with three or five shot groups. Because these groups were much larger than they should have been with any factory new ammunition, the rifles were examined.

The upper receiver assemblies of the two problem carbines were completely disassembled in order to determine the cause of this issue. It was immediately apparent that the problem related to improper barrel nut torque values – the barrel nuts, which slide over a collar on the barrel and thread onto the front of the upper receiver, required less than 5 ft-lbs to break loose.

Proper torque values for this part are 30-80 ft-lbs. Once the components were properly reassembled, ten shot group sizes shrank to approximately 3.5 MOA, which is a realistic result to expect from standard carbines firing bulk ammunition.

The Stag is a solid choice. Chrome lined 4150 HPT/MPI barrel and MPI test bolt make the one of the best in the price range. Buffer tube is 6061 though.
I doubt the Stag has a 6061 tube, stag is CMT and they're a Colt contractor, they make 7075 tubes.
 
Last edited:
I personnaly inspect my mecanical stuff (firearms or else) for proper specs and function regardless of the maker when I get em, new and used.

My point being, once inspected and corrected if needed, the thing just run. So if the deals right...

But yeah, not everybody likes to thinker and it definatly doesn't look good or inspire confidence when they come out the factory off spec. And if you got the budget and option, by all means, go for it!
 
99.9% of what you'll find on the net is spewed off by morons who know jack #### what they're talking about and are just repeating ingorant drivel they've seen somewhere else. There's pretty much only one place on the internet where you can get reliable factual information and that's because that's where the industry professionals, aka american instructors and armorers hang out. I've been hanging over there for over 10 years.


If you're talking about the Luckygunner test conducted by Andrew Tuohy, who I respect greatly and have talked with in the past, two of the four Bushmasters they got brand new for the test had barrel nuts that were only hand tight, they were not torqued. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

I'll highligh some key elements for you:

[FONT=&]Barrel nuts were torqued to inconsistent values: two had been torqued to approximately 5 ft/lbs, while the other two had been torqued within the appropriate range of 30-80 ft/lbs.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Each firearm was broken down and inspected to ensure that it was within acceptable standards; this initial visual inspection did not reveal any deficiencies serious enough to be addressed prior to the beginning of the test. During the first range trip, however, serious accuracy issues were noted with two carbines – the Federal and Brown Bear weapons.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Both shot groups of over 5MOA, or over 5 inches at 100 yards, out of the box. It should be noted that ten shot groups were fired for all accuracy testing in this article, and the results are not directly comparable with three or five shot groups. Because these groups were much larger than they should have been with any factory new ammunition, the rifles were examined.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]The upper receiver assemblies of the two problem carbines were completely disassembled in order to determine the cause of this issue. It was immediately apparent that the problem related to improper barrel nut torque values – the barrel nuts, which slide over a collar on the barrel and thread onto the front of the upper receiver, required less than 5 ft-lbs to break loose.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]Proper torque values for this part are 30-80 ft-lbs. Once the components were properly reassembled, ten shot group sizes shrank to approximately 3.5 MOA, which is a realistic result to expect from standard carbines firing bulk ammunition.[/FONT]


I doubt the Stag has a 6061 tube, stag is CMT and they're a Colt contractor, they make 7075 tubes.

Confirmed as 6061 by many people including myself. They may have 7075 on other models but their base rifle uses a 6061 tube.

I emailed their customer service department to ask after mrgunsngear stated it was 6061 in his review and they confirmed. Still a great deal, a 7075 buffer tube is pretty cheap.
 
Nothing against you, but people who decide if an AR15 manufacturer produce reliable AR's are the kind of people who go to the firing line and shoot 400 rounds before lunch. American instructors litterally see tens of thousand of rounds go through various guns in a day, every day. They see guns fail and break every single day, a good number of manufacturers are always on that list of failures, and Bushmaster is one of those. A number of manufacturers are never on that list. Since the assault weapons ban was lifted in 2004, a metric #### ton of experience has been amassed in the U.S. about the AR15, and it's been growing constantly.

Fit and finish tell nothing about the quality of a rifle.

The OP was asking for an opinion on something that I happen to own. I know that 400 rounds ain't squat for reliability testing, but unlike those testers I don't have an unlimited ammo supply :d:d

Sure, some Bushmasters have had problems in the past - and so has every other AR maker out there. It's a mechanical device, and those break no matter the price point.

Usually a higher price means better quality, but not always. Ask Mike the Bike about his Christensen rifle sometime.....
 
The OP was asking for an opinion on something that I happen to own. I know that 400 rounds ain't squat for reliability testing, but unlike those testers I don't have an unlimited ammo supply :d:d

Sure, some Bushmasters have had problems in the past - and so has every other AR maker out there. It's a mechanical device, and those break no matter the price point.

Usually a higher price means better quality, but not always. Ask Mike the Bike about his Christensen rifle sometime.....
Bushmaster has never built an AR15 properly, not then, not now, not "just some of them".

Putting every other AR15 manufacturer out there into the same pit as Bushmaster is just showing me you don't know as much as you think you do. I'm citing BM here simply as an example, BM has plenty of friends in the crap AR manufacturers club.

A properly built mechanical device does not in fact "break no matter the price point". Many manufacturers have built a very strong reputation because their guns just don't break.



If a gun is working for your applications, then by all means, awesome, but that doesn't necessarily mean that gun is a good gun. That's all I'm saying. Like I said, nothing against you.
 
Last edited:
OMG.
Jump on the wagon to hate Colt and Expanse is your vehicle
Anyone heard of Colt Competition?

I live ten minutes from Wanstalls and was in there last summer looking to buy an AR. Asked about the Colt Expanse and the gentleman helping me (not mentioning names because anyone who has dealt with Wanstalls knows him) said he’s rather sell me a used Norinco than sell an Expanse. I have nothing against Colt nor do I have opinion about them but when they’d rather give me a deal on a 6920 that was enough of a warning to stay away from an Expanse.
 
Last edited:
lots of bad advice here. Just save up for a COLT CANADA rifle. Well you are at it buy the book Black Rifle 2 and read up on it, its a bit dated but still holds true today.

Colt Expanse is not even entirely made in the Colt Hartford plant, I would get 2015 or earlier Colt LE6920 or to be ahead of the curve get a made in Canada "COLT CANADA" SAS 10.5 or 15.7 from Nordic Marksmen.

You will thank me if you do the research especially in 10 years.

As for M&P its a hobby gun, waste of money really.
 
lots of bad advice here. Just save up for a COLT CANADA rifle. Well you are at it buy the book Black Rifle 2 and read up on it, its a bit dated but still holds true today.

Colt Expanse is not even entirely made in the Colt Hartford plant, I would get 2015 or earlier Colt LE6920 or to be ahead of the curve get a made in Canada "COLT CANADA" SAS 10.5 or 15.7 from Nordic Marksmen.

You will thank me if you do the research especially in 10 years.

As for M&P its a hobby gun, waste of money really.

A CC complete upper (was kinda waiting for the MRR to come in stock) and fit it with my CC BCG and attach it to a Colt Lower, LE serial #, from an Expanse:
Do I then have a Mil-Spec quality AR? Not entirely made in Hartford I know.
 
A CC complete upper (was kinda waiting for the MRR to come in stock) and fit it with my CC BCG and attach it to a Colt Lower, LE serial #, from an Expanse:
Do I then have a Mil-Spec quality AR? Not entirely made in Hartford I know.

I’m not sure about the Expanse lower if it’s entirely made in Hartford. That being said some of the Expanse line seems okay but keep in mind they were subcontracted out.

If you have herd the saying Before “A lower is a lower”.

Hey either way that’s a great setup.
 
The Stag is a solid choice. Chrome lined 4150 HPT/MPI barrel and MPI test bolt make the one of the best in the price range. Buffer tube is 6061 though.

Thanks. But, the receiver extension is 7075, not 6061.
 
Last edited:
I emailed their customer service and they said 6061 but I'd be quite happy if it was 7075 since I have one sitting in the closet.

Prepare to be happy. :) We visit the factory regularly for over 10 years and can know their materials manager well, whoever told you that was mistaken. The reason everyone selling CMT or Stag receiver extensions as 7075 is because they are 7075. Stag doesn't use any milspec parts that aren't current milspec materials. Not that it matters a whole lot on the receiver extension, but they don't do a 6061 receiver extension. Many many many of the milspec 7075 receiver extensions on the market today, of many top brands, come from John Downey Dr, New Britain, CT.
 
Last edited:
Prepare to be happy. :) We visit the factory regularly for over 10 years and can know their materials manager well, whoever told you that was mistaken. The reason everyone selling CMT or Stag receiver extensions as 7075 is because they are 7075. Stag doesn't use any milspec parts that aren't current milspec materials. Not that it matters a whole lot on the receiver extension, but they don't do a 6061 receiver extension. Many many many of the milspec 7075 receiver extensions on the market today, of many top brands, come from John Downey Dr, New Britain, CT.

That's great! They seem like outstanding quality for the price.
 
I googled it and it's actually right there on their website saying they only use 7075. Sorry for the misinformation.

My Stag has been 100% BTW.
 
I have an opportunity to buy a NIB Colt Expanse M4 for $1000 cash. Is this is decent deal or should I spend my money elsewhere?
A friend bought it, but for *reasons* it sat in its box for the past while still wrapped up, he just wants to get rid of it.
 
I have an opportunity to buy a NIB Colt Expanse M4 for $1000 cash. Is this is decent deal or should I spend my money elsewhere?
A friend bought it, but for *reasons* it sat in its box for the past while still wrapped up, he just wants to get rid of it.

Not really. Look on the ee here man. There are plenty of better ars for comparable money.

If you want something on the colt expanse level of quality get a m&p sport 2
 
Back
Top Bottom