Combination Over/Under Muzzleloader

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rbell

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Hello Folks, an old Teacher of mine has this gun that has been in his family since the late 1850's. So far I have been able to identify the lock maker and gun maker and provide him with that time frame. Can anyone provide us with any other good information and as always, any value other than possible wall hanger. It appears that the rifle barrel may be still loaded or some other type of blockage as I am unable to get rod to bottom. Stock is missing a large piece by right hammer. Apparently this happened when it was tossed out house window when the house caught fire. Other than that I will let the pictures tell the rest. Only other markings are the two notch looking ones on underside of barrel. It was not dismantled to check for any other hidden marks.
Thanks for your help.
Robert

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Cool piece of 19th century hunting kit. If I were you, I would remove this barrel "blockage" anticipating a full charge (be careful). Black powder has no shelf life if kept dry and a mere spark could set off the barrel, this potential can be avoided by soaking the (what we're to assume is powder) charge from the nipple end with WD40 or the like. This will render the powder useless. Screw threaded ball puller (more WD40 down the muzzle end) and pull the projectile out.
Some may say to "shoot it out!?" but you don't know what's in there so I'm suggesting you pull it out manually (cause it's safer, and when you're done you'll still have a rifle/shotgun) {Kaboom:)}
 
The owner took it to a local Museum thinking they would be interested but they had no interest in it at all. I am quite sure that he will not be making it go Kaboom.
 
For removing the blockage I'd suggest using compressed air rather than a puller - less chance of running the puller off the side of the ball and into the side of the barrel (I don`t like pullers - seen them fail more than work).

Thoroughly soaking the bore and charge with penetrating oil will help loosen things up and deactivate the powder as mentioned as well - standing the gun upright and pouring a cup of good thin penetrating oil then allowing it to stand in a warm area for a week will give you a good chance of things breaking free. Pouring acetone down first and letting it soak for a while may open the way up to penetrating oil once the acetone has been poured off. Plus you`ll be able to see what kind of blockage it is if the oil appears at the nipples, thus showing that it has bypassed the blockage.
 
I like the way that H Wally thinks on this stuff. If the compressed air doesn't work because you can't get the pressure high enough the nipple can be pulled and replaced temporarily with a fitting that offers a better seal for the air. Or in an extreme case replace the nipple with a proper thread size zerk fitting and use a grease gun to force the old charge and ball out. Messy and a bit slow but it'll work for sure then.

Hopefully the thread size on the nipple isn't a real oddball.
 
As to value, I paid $650 for the one I currently have and which is similar to your except that it is a mule ear or side hammer. I had another O/U which was a rifle top and bottom and think I traded it for around $500.

I have made two or three ball pullers, with a large wood screw silver soldered into a brass head that is just under bore diameter. The puller is screwed onto a 3/8 steel rod with a T shaped handle and I tie the handle to my bench vice with about 2 feet of slack then pull with increasing yanks until the ball comes out or the screw pulls out. In your case I would leave the ball and patch soak for several days with penetrating oil in the barrel, before trying to pull the ball. If you have access to one or can make one, HWally's suggestion of using compressed air is a preferrable method but again after soaking the ball with penetrating oil from the muzzle

cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks help folks. I would ask though what is it that puts it at that kind of value? Is it the year? Is it the maker? Or is it the type of firearm? Once unloaded I would be suggesting that he hang it on the wall and put the story with it so it does not get lost in time.
Tks
Robert
 
I don't see any reason to hang it up unless the barrels are so pitted that shooting it will be tough to do. But that's up to him I guess.

If the bores are in good shape and he's shooting suitable black powder charges there's no reason why the barrels won't hold the pressure now just like they did back then.
 
rbell said:
Thanks help folks. I would ask though what is it that puts it at that kind of value? .
Click to expand...

The price is set by what somebody else will pay for it. In some cases such as high end british shotguns, the name and condition push the price up. For muzzle loading rifles, history, condition, craftsmanship and the ability to shoot it will influence the price. Guns that are heavy or awkward or just don't fit with local competition or interest bring the price down

cheers mooncoon
 
Would anyone have any idea how man of these Dudley Booth would have made between 1857-1866? I have been searching and have found very little info
Tks
Robert
 
From the book on Canadian gunsmiths Booth worked from 1857 to 1879, not sure how many gun he would have made, I have 2 rifles he put his name on a Remington rolling block set up as a long range rifle, looks like it was a shotgun action then long range stocks added and a round barrle not sure on the chamber yet and is stamped Booth Ottawa and then a Remington Hepburn in 40/70 and the Remnington name is taken out of the barrel and brass insert with Booth Ottawa stamped into the brass
 
Any smith that made one off's likely won't have a serial number that looks like a serial number. But I'd be surprised if there isn't something on the gun somewhere to indicate either a date of completion or a series number for the guns he made. It would likely be just a two or three digit number if he did them one at a time. And it would likely mean removing at least some piece of wood to see it. Also check in with the engraving for a small number woven into the patterns. If I were engraving a gun that much including the lettering I'd likely include the series or serial number in the same manner.
 
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