Concealed weapon or not: The bush and animal protection

While hunting {read, or during hunting season}, a horse is considered a "vehicle". Your firearms must be unloaded (or suffer the wrath of the ever present gaze that is the eye of Sauron {MNR;)}. Surveying in the bush is a different kettle of fish...just get a permit and modern up to a model 29 (.44 Mag). Perfectly legal.
 
plinker 777 said:
While hunting {read, or during hunting season}, a horse is considered a "vehicle".
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Just wondering if this is stated somewhere in the hunting regs? Normally, it seems to me that a vehicle is motor operated, however, I've never seen 'vehicle' defined. I just checked the definitions provided in the first few pages of the criminal code and I was surprised to see that 'vehicle' is not defined. Perhaps it is defined elsewhere. I normally would not consider a horse or a canoe to be a 'vehicle'.
 
plinker 777 said:
While hunting {read, or during hunting season}, a horse is considered a "vehicle". Your firearms must be unloaded (or suffer the wrath of the ever present gaze that is the eye of Sauron {MNR;)}. Surveying in the bush is a different kettle of fish...just get a permit and modern up to a model 29 (.44 Mag). Perfectly legal.
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Where does it say a horse is a vehicle. I'm calling bs on that.
 
bandit86 said:
Looking for information on open carrying on a motorcycle or ATV (or horse) I've been reading through this thread for hours and I think I traveled back in time to tomorrow. Please excuse me for asking what's been asked before; loaded antique revolver open carry in a holster while riding a motorcycle in the bush, ya or no. I'm not transporting it, my truck that I transport the atv to the trail is at the head of the trail. I'm surveying for work. (I read it as it can be used basically as a non restricted rifle) If no, loaded or unloaded carrying it in an unlocked but lockable box for quick access? I know my shotgun can't be loaded in or on a motorcycle which is why I'm leaning toward carrying a magazine fed grizzly for quick loading.
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I would look into a wilderness ATC if I were you.
 
Win 38-55 said:
Just wondering if this is stated somewhere in the hunting regs? Normally, it seems to me that a vehicle is motor operated, however, I've never seen 'vehicle' defined. I just checked the definitions provided in the first few pages of the criminal code and I was surprised to see that 'vehicle' is not defined. Perhaps it is defined elsewhere. I normally would not consider a horse or a canoe to be a 'vehicle'.
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Doesn't it say, "motorized" vehicle?
 
trebor2880 said:
Doesn't it say, "motorized" vehicle?
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Nope, it says vehicle. I just took the Hunters Ed course a month ago, although I can't find a horse being defined as a "vehicle" in the regs, the instructor made it a specific point on several occasions that a horse is defined as a vehicle. You cannot shoot from one, and you cannot have a loaded firearm on one. If you do and are caught by a LEO you will be charged (MNR/Conservation Officer).

They (MNR?) have also defined "road" to include anything that an unmodified "vehicle" could reasonably travel on (bush trail)...and no, the irony of the former isn't lost on me when considering the latter.
 
I guess I would have to see the written law that defines a horse as a vehicle. I ride around on shank's mare all the time when I'm hunting, so if they start calling THAT a vehicle, we're all going to be in trouble.
 
Scenarious

It took me more than 5 hours to read this thread and I must say there is load of good information. Thank you guys. However, during the last 20 + pages the discussion went somewhat off topic which normally suggests that the thread has reached the end of its useful life. Yet, I feel that there is some room for more clarity. Here is what I have in mind:

MODE:
At any given time any gun including antiques (note I am not using word "firearm" here) can be in one of the following 3 states:
1. Stored
2. Transported
3. In use

STATE:
At the same time the gun can only have two states: it can be loaded or unloaded (which may or may not be in violation of applicable laws and regulations)

LOCATION:
Legality of the mentioned MODE-STATE combinations also depends on geographic location. What is legal in one area (e.g. on the Crown Land) maybe illegal in another (off the Crown Land or in the Provincial Park such as Algonquin).

INTENT:
This is related to the answers you give to the LEO's questions when he/she is trying to establish your intent / purpose with regards to the observable MODE / STATES. For example, you may say that it is for the purpose of Target Shooting OR you may say that it is for the purpose of Protection from the wild animals.

So, let's assume all other things are being equal; meaning there is no intent to harm or intimidate other people, or to conceal the gun.

Let's start with the easiest case and gradually add some complexity:
1. You are on CL (Crown Land) where it is allowed to target-shoot. You have set up / about to set up a shooting range for target practice (you can prove it by producing some targets you have used etc.). Your gun is in the loaded state and its clearly in use (you are shooting / about to start shooting). Your location is CL, you have all the papers for your antique and your stated intent is target shooting. Plain vanilla case. In my view highly unlikely to cause problems.

2. Now let's make this less obvious. You are hiking towards CL but you are NOT there yet. Your gun is loaded and carried in the holster (is it in use?) When stopped by LEO you state that your intent is Target shooting. I wonder if you are on a shaky ground here since you have not reached your destination yet and you are carrying (using?) a loaded gun. Is your gun supposed to be in the transportation mode until you reach your destination if your intent is Target shooting?

3. Same as #2 except when questioned you say that you are carrying with intent to protect yourself against wild animals. Is this a lawful purpose in the first place? We know that carrying with the purpose of protection against humans is clearly illegal in Canada, so if you are in the bush (that is you Location is not downtown Toronto), and your stated purpose is clearly mentions wild animals are you off the hook? I saw someone posted some email from MNR (but is this all we can point to or there are other things in the law that we could point to?

I wonder if you guys can share your thoughts especially on Scenarios 2 and 3.
 
Zircarg said:
Well I just found out I can carry a shotgun in the bush here in Nova Scotia with a basic wildlife stamp, so I'm thinking of getting a Dominion Arms 8.5 inch 12 ga. shottie. For all intents and purposes, it might as well be a shotgun. Can only use shot though, unless a person has a big game license and then can use slugs to the end of March. Can also target shoot. Had a long chat with the DNR officer. Glad I did. Although she said if she saw me with a pistol - no matter if antique or not, no questions, I'm be on the business end of bad news.

The 8.5 Dominion is short and light but holds only 3 shells whereas the 12.5 holds 5. What to do. What to do....
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I had the same idea and I'm not a hunter. However, in hunting law, you cannot hunt with any barrel shorter than 12" apparently. And if you get caught by a CO in the bush during hunting season, they could charge you for hunting with a firearm measuring less than 12"... even if your intentions were not to hunt... apparently. I was suggested not to risk such an encounter, as the CO's can sometimes be unreasonable.

If anyone can clarify on this?

This could also apply on an antique?
 
XSlor said:
I had the same idea and I'm not a hunter. However, in hunting law, you cannot hunt with any barrel shorter than 12" apparently. And if you get caught by a CO in the bush during hunting season, they could charge you for hunting with a firearm measuring less than 12"... even if your intentions were not to hunt... apparently. I was suggested not to risk such an encounter, as the CO's can sometimes be unreasonable.

If anyone can clarify on this?

This could also apply on an antique?
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IIRC, the 12 inch rule applies under the provincial hunting regulations of BC only.

Never heard this regulation quoted anywhere else in this country.
 
Brutus said:
IIRC, the 12 inch rule applies under the provincial hunting regulations of BC only.

Never heard this regulation quoted anywhere else in this country.
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Makes sense... I'm in BC! haha... I never heard of this either till about 2 days ago when I wanted to get a shorty shoty for bush protection when hiking on my own... I guess it's something to consider for BC residents...
 
Just a bump hoping someone might be able to comment on the scenarios below.

edojan said:
It took me more than 5 hours to read this thread and I must say there is load of good information. Thank you guys. However, during the last 20 + pages the discussion went somewhat off topic which normally suggests that the thread has reached the end of its useful life. Yet, I feel that there is some room for more clarity. Here is what I have in mind:

MODE:
At any given time any gun including antiques (note I am not using word "firearm" here) can be in one of the following 3 states:
1. Stored
2. Transported
3. In use

STATE:
At the same time the gun can only have two states: it can be loaded or unloaded (which may or may not be in violation of applicable laws and regulations)

LOCATION:
Legality of the mentioned MODE-STATE combinations also depends on geographic location. What is legal in one area (e.g. on the Crown Land) maybe illegal in another (off the Crown Land or in the Provincial Park such as Algonquin).

INTENT:
This is related to the answers you give to the LEO's questions when he/she is trying to establish your intent / purpose with regards to the observable MODE / STATES. For example, you may say that it is for the purpose of Target Shooting OR you may say that it is for the purpose of Protection from the wild animals.

So, let's assume all other things are being equal; meaning there is no intent to harm or intimidate other people, or to conceal the gun.

Let's start with the easiest case and gradually add some complexity:
1. You are on CL (Crown Land) where it is allowed to target-shoot. You have set up / about to set up a shooting range for target practice (you can prove it by producing some targets you have used etc.). Your gun is in the loaded state and its clearly in use (you are shooting / about to start shooting). Your location is CL, you have all the papers for your antique and your stated intent is target shooting. Plain vanilla case. In my view highly unlikely to cause problems.

2. Now let's make this less obvious. You are hiking towards CL but you are NOT there yet. Your gun is loaded and carried in the holster (is it in use?) When stopped by LEO you state that your intent is Target shooting. I wonder if you are on a shaky ground here since you have not reached your destination yet and you are carrying (using?) a loaded gun. Is your gun supposed to be in the transportation mode until you reach your destination if your intent is Target shooting?

3. Same as #2 except when questioned you say that you are carrying with intent to protect yourself against wild animals. Is this a lawful purpose in the first place? We know that carrying with the purpose of protection against humans is clearly illegal in Canada, so if you are in the bush (that is you Location is not downtown Toronto), and your stated purpose is clearly mentions wild animals are you off the hook? I saw someone posted some email from MNR (but is this all we can point to or there are other things in the law that we could point to?

I wonder if you guys can share your thoughts especially on Scenarios 2 and 3.
Click to expand...
 
JayCarver: Since the antique handgun is classified as a non-firearm (except if it is concealed), then in the scenarios you mentioned, substitute 'non-restricted rifle' for the antique pistol and you will have the answers to all three.

Budman: very interesting. As you point out, that class action is for restricted handguns. We can already open carry antiques in the wilderness or anywhere else we can open carry non-restricted rifles.
 
True, but we know how some ,if not most leo and co's would veiw
these as restricted first. Thus ruining our outing to the bush.

Win 38-55 said:
Budman: very interesting. As you point out, that class action is for restricted handguns. We can already open carry antiques in the wilderness or anywhere else we can open carry non-restricted rifles.
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Musketfire said:
Last summer I was on a solitary fishing/camping trip, I had the canoe all packed up after a day and a night camping in one spot.

I usually go for 4-5 days and move camps, fishing from shore at each different camp I make.

As I push off from shore and start paddling, I hear a ruckus behind me....Ill be damned if it wasn't a bear in the middle of the small clearing.

My snider cadet was all rolled up and packed away....
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Would you mind commenting on why you chose the Snider Cadet? It is a choice I have previously considered as well for this kind of scenario.
 
^ This is interesting. If one were to be wearing an IWB holster (or shoulder), I believe it would be tough to squirrel out from under a "concealed" charge. Alternatively if worn outside, on the hip or chest and it threatens rain, and you don rain gear are you "concealing"? Would the legal expectation be to wear your gun belt outside your rain gear soaking your gun and powder (if cap and ball)...not to mention causing you to sweat your a$$ off and pass out:p!? Nonsense I say!

What about a Horse (vehicle) and wearing an oilskin overcoat?
 
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