Confused Regarding Legalities

sixty9santa

sixty9santa

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With all the buzz about the classification of the Dlask shotgun, there are many questions that come mind.
The main question is can I now put a Hogue Tamer on my HP9-1 and remain non-restricted?

unopistoleros said:
Here is letter from CFC / RCMP:
Dear #########,
Thank you for your telephone call today with regard to the legal classification of the Remington 870 shotgun and the MCS system, ###############################################################################################################x. Short barreled pump action shotguns with folding stocks are controlled within the Criminal Code of Canada, and it specifically details that the firearm is reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by means of folding, telescoping or otherwise. The otherwise does not take into consideration replacement with commercially available stocks such as a pistol grip stocks. Thus it is very legal and does not change the class of a non semi automatic firearm if you put a manufactured short barrel and pistol grip on the gun.
#############################################################################################################################################################################################
I trust this response has met your needs, please feel free to call if I can be of any further assistance.
Regards,
#########
Manager
#######################################x
Canada Firearms Centre | Centre des armes à feu Canada
Royal Canadian Mounted Police | Gendarmerie royale du Canada
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Also without the name of the RCMP author of said letter it is useless for the rest of us to pull out of our gun cases at a roadside check.

As I seriously doubt your average RCMP, and conservation officer will know this much about the regs, so being able to drop names to cover ones ass might be a good idea IMHO, and might save one from an expensive day in court.

But if there is anything to this then I'd say it pretty much ends the need for many to get ATC in the woods for a handgun. :)
 
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I believe that gun with a knoxx breacher pistol grip is already over the minimum legal length issue we previously thought was a barrier. I'd reccomend going that route - it's apperently an awesome recoil reducer and then you've got nothing to worry about. No sense 'pushing the envelope' if you don't need to. I'm confident dlask is right, but if you don't need to go there because there's another solution....
 
Pte.BiC said:
but still, this new ruling still does raise the question, can I put a Hogue Tamer on my HP9?
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I believe the short, and dirty of it is only a manufacturer can legally do it...but then again I could be wrong, as I have lost track with all the threads. :D
 
Let's say you buy the new Dlask and decide you don't like the Tamer pistol grip......you take it off and replace it with a knox breacher's grip......
I think even though you have modified the gun from the original configuration you would still be legal as all parts are "stock" items.
 
I think even though you have modified the gun from the original configuration you would still be legal as all parts are "stock" items.
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I BELIEVE that the official position of the cfc is that 'modification' does not include replacement of things like stocks. So that would mean you are correct. It also, i was told by them, does not include things like swapping barrels.

However - to take an existing gun and modify it below what we've always thought of as the minimum oal, i think i'd be a little concerned that they might try to 're-interpret' that on the fly :)

I think until this is well established, putting a houge on your 12 inch pump would be something i'd avoid for now. There's just a little grey area yet.
 
Foxer said:
I BELIEVE that the official position of the cfc is that 'modification' does not include replacement of things like stocks. So that would mean you are correct. It also, i was told by them, does not include things like swapping barrels.

However - to take an existing gun and modify it below what we've always thought of as the minimum oal, i think i'd be a little concerned that they might try to 're-interpret' that on the fly :)

I think until this is well established, putting a houge on your 12 inch pump would be something i'd avoid for now. There's just a little grey area yet.
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However, my question is: If a 14" Fabarm comes in with a pistol grip on it, does it remain non-restricted?

JR
 
I have a bunch of questions as well.

What is meant by a manufacturer has to make it?
Does that mean I could send a manufacturer a shotgun and a pistol grip, he puts them together and its kosher?

The US doesn't allow export of SBR's, which include shotguns right? So then all the wonderful shorties must be made here?
 
I too am very confused about this 'ruling' on the new shotgun... and while its absolutely awesome and a step in the right direction, I can't help but question how the hell they came to such a decision. I understand the paperwork is done and the dust has settled... the Dlask 870 is non-restricted and that's the end of it. That doesn't answer anything, it just leaves more questions...

This is from the CFC site:

Definition of a Restricted Firearm
According to the Criminal Code, a restricted firearm is:

1 a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm;

2 a semi-automatic, centre-fire rifle or shotgun with a barrel length less than 470 mm (18.5 inches) that is not prohibited;

3 a rifle or shotgun that can fire when its overall length is reduced by folding, telescoping or some other means to less than 660 mm (26 inches);

4 any firearm prescribed as restricted (including some long guns).
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I can understand how the #3 point is bypassed, but whats up with #2? According to the site its very clear and to the point... a barrel less than 18.5" means the gun is restricted.

Can someone shed light on this? I understand that shorter barrels have been adapted to non restricted shotguns, but how?? Its in plain text... shorter than 18.5 = restricted. Can I now somehow get an XCR with an 18.5" barrel and swap a shorty 8 incher on it and still be non-restricted? I think not.... as evidenced by the SIG CQB and its longer counterparts. So what gives?
 
read #2 in it's entirety

2 a semi-automatic, centre-fire rifle or shotgun with a barrel length less than 470 mm (18.5 inches) that is not prohibited;

It is saying that any semi-auto centerfire rifle os shotgun under 18.5"
 
However, my question is: If a 14" Fabarm comes in with a pistol grip on it, does it remain non-restricted?
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Good question - it would seem to me at this point like unless it was made that way by the manufacturer, it would be questionable.
 
Can someone shed light on this? I understand that shorter barrels have been adapted to non restricted shotguns, but how?? Its in plain text... shorter than 18.5 = restricted.
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Read it again. It says a shotgun (nonsemi) that can be fired when its overall length is REDUCED - by 'folding' or "telescoping" ... or some other means.

A pistol grip does not fold, telescope, or anything else. So... the restriction does not apply. It's the same as any other stock.

That's the so-called 'loophole'.
 
Foxer said:
Read it again. It says a shotgun (nonsemi) that can be fired when its overall length is REDUCED - by 'folding' or "telescoping" ... or some other means.

A pistol grip does not fold, telescope, or anything else. So... the restriction does not apply. It's the same as any other stock.

That's the so-called 'loophole'.
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Like I said, I can see how they got by that point and its valid. I was confused about the barrel length thing because I had seen shorter barrels on shotguns before and didn't get how they remained non-restricted...

... until ponts so cleverly pointed out to me that the text refers to SEMI-AUTOMATICS :)
 
darko said:
Can I now somehow get an XCR with an 18.5" barrel and swap a shorty 8 incher on it and still be non-restricted? I think not.... as evidenced by the SIG CQB and its longer counterparts. So what gives?
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SEMI-AUTOMATIC
 
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