Conversion to Modern Cartridge

tactical870

tactical870

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I've got an old 38 rf Hopkins and Allen XL4 spur trigger which I've been playing with for a while now. Finally got everything functional and now I'm thinking 38 rf is a poor caliber. I've toyed with the idea of reaming the cylinder to accept a shortened 38spl wildcat, but am now thinking that it would be easier in the long run to sleeve the cylinder and bore down and chamber it in 22 magnum. As I understand it, it would retain antique status as 22 mag is not on the "no go" list for antiques. .17 hmr was also a thought but barrel blanks are a little harder to find.... Any thoughts?
 
that idea has gone past the lathe and around the shop here many times.

it is a matter of offsetting a .22 barrel and indexing the cylinder sleeves and barrel sleeve to match and have the hammer fall still make the rim on the smaller round.
I thought it was a grand idea when I first came up with it ;) and very doable...
I still think it's a grand idea.
sleeving would strengthen everything too so smokeless would be less of a concern chamber wise.
 
Southlander said:
Just to state the obvious be sure it can't chamber and fire a 22LR. I know there is a 20 thou difference in diameter but it might still chamber and fire. Same with 38spl wildcat might be pretty close to 38colt or 38S&W.
As I understand it once you modify the gun it can't chamber and fire anything off the no list, or it loses its antique status.

.17 works but like you said pricey blanks.
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lots of metric cal stuff can "chamber and fire" rounds on the no go list...doesn't change their status...
I think it's more along the lines of "modified to accept"

tactical870 said:
I can center the .22 inserts and sleeve as long as I recut the notch for the hammer and weld in a new striker on the hammer.....
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the would be the easy way out :p
if you go the way I suggested you could always press out the sleeves and be factory again...theoretically...
the offset was just my simplified application.I'd rather destroy a couple of .22 barrels than an antique hammer if it didn't work out the first go ;)
 
This gun is bad enough to be bubba'd without any fear of losing any value. It was a childs toy before I got it and has been dry fired repeatedly to the point that the hammer is damn near ruined. The muzzle had been hammered against something and badly mushroomed. I don't think I could possibly devalue this gun....
 
I know the law well and have c/p it here many times for others.
With your interpretation many of the French ordinance revolvers should be restricted/prohibited too because they are "capable of discharging" 32 S&W and 32 short Colt and...and...
I believe they intentionally left the law open to interpretation so they can bend it to their needs.
I prefer not to get drawn into that...to each his own.
 
Best thing to do is not take my word or yours, call the CFC and ask them if a 38 rimfire were "adapted to discharge" a 38 centerfire and was now capable of shooting a 38S&W or 38LC would it still have antique status?

Nuff said...
 
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the piece of law you quoted and based your last post on said nothing about being adapted to discharge...it says capable of...
I understand the point you are trying to make and I agree that erring on the side of caution is prudent,especially since antique owners don't need the scrutiny that would result from a case like that hitting the media.

Nuff said... ;)
 
I believe 38long rimfire is the same dimensions as 38long colt and as soon as the antique is converted to centerfire it will be a prohibited weapon. You would have to rethroat the chambers shorter than 38S&W to avoid building a prohibited weapon. A case that short would be pretty useless.

Best to avoid modifying antique cylinders in 38 & 32 cal altogether or it could be argued it was "adapted to discharge" something on the no list.
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Except a 38 Long Colt is too long to chamber in a 38 RF cylinder....

Also, The law reads "designed or adapted to discharge......" I am more interested in designing and adapting it to discharge a wildcat cartridge based on a 38 spl case. It does not say than an antique cannot be capable of discharging a cartridge on the no-go list, only that it may not be designed or adapted to do so. BTW, a factory 38 SPL cartridge will not chamber due to length either..... (not to mention cause some serious injury to the shooter if fired in smokeless, +P form)
 
I think a lot of guys on here are a bit overzealous in their interpretation of the laws on antiques. The law names several cartridges by name, not by diameters. For antique rifles they clearly state a criteria based on the bore diameter of the rifling, so the guys who made the law were aware of that and chose not to exclude any calibers based on its diameter but solely by its name. If they wrote it the way you're interpreting it, they would only need to list "22 Calibre Short" because that will fire in all of the other 22 caliber chamberings, and listing 22 long and lr would be redundant. Same deal with centerfire, I'm pretty sure 38 short colt will go bang in a s&w or long colt chamber!

My interpretation is that if it is specifically chambered for a round that is not on the "no list" it is fine. Just because you can shove a round in the chamber and make it go bang doesn't make it right, the first thing they teach in the PAL course is not to put the wrong ammo in there and putting a 22lr in a 22mag chamber is no good!
 
As far as casings are concerned, I had a very nice .38RF Remington No4 (that has been sold) and was planning to modify it to centerfire.

I had a lot of .38 Special brass on hand and was going to shorten & use that with some custom bullets (with a modified hammer on the revolver, of course). I never got around to doing it, but the brass fit quite well and it was just a tad smaller than the chambers after it was resized with 38 special dies.. fire forming it would've made it perfect, I guess.

fiscus said:
My interpretation is that if it is specifically chambered for a round that is not on the "no list" it is fine. Just because you can shove a round in the chamber and make it go bang doesn't make it right, the first thing they teach in the PAL course is not to put the wrong ammo in there and putting a 22lr in a 22mag chamber is no good!
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Right on, Fiscus!

:)
 
Well this is intresting discussion and southlander brings up good points to.
A fellow asked me Via PM could he have his SAA colt converted to shoot 357 Magnum?
I replyed and i think in this case im correct that No you cant because the 38 Special will chamber perfect in a 357 mag cylinder.

So what do you guys think if you have a 357 Mag cylinder would that be Ok.
I told him no and 44 Sp was a much better choice.

I am thinking about the 22 Magnum idea.
I have and Antique SAA Colt cylinder converted to shoot 22 LR along time ago its not in a gun just in the spare parts drawer.
Its a pro job just a really old one.

Now im thinking of buying a 22 mag reamer from brownells and rechambering the 22 LR cylinder to 22 Magnum.
Now i think thats OK because a 22 Magnum chamber is bigger in Dia than a 22 LR and if you fire a 22 LR in a 22 Mag chamber the case will buldge maby even split open its unsafe thing to do.
So would i be OK as long as i keep the 22 Mag reamer as proof it was rechambered to a 22 Magnum.
The reamer would say 22 Mag on it and fit perfect into the chamber.

The guns hammer could be adjusted so it wont fire a 22 Lr and only a 22 Mag if the 22 Mag rim is bigger in Dia tho im not positive it is....i know the 22 mag case is bigger in dia so the rim must be abit bigger.

Thoughts on this ?
 
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