Cost of .223 holding me back from an AR

tenth_gen said:
I've wondered myself why .223 / 5.56 is so expensive based on how plentiful it is and that it's used by the largest military. Also if you compare it to something like .308 win that has a considerably larger case and projectile it just doesn't make sense how expensive .223 is when compared with much larger rounds.

Anyone offer any insight?
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Supply and demand... There is very little true "surplus" available, and it is likely the most popular centrefire rifle calibre in North America.
 
tenth_gen said:
I've wondered myself why .223 / 5.56 is so expensive based on how plentiful it is and that it's used by the largest military. Also if you compare it to something like .308 win that has a considerably larger case and projectile it just doesn't make sense how expensive .223 is when compared with much larger rounds.

Anyone offer any insight?
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A significant portion of the cost of the round is labour. There is huge economy of scale with .223 compared to any other round, it is half the cost of comparable .308. $.50/round is not expensive for American made brass cased ammo. There is only a few cents worth in material in virtually any round of ammunition, raw material costs are small compared to the cost of tooling and labour... This applies to firearms too.

You're needing insight because you have likely never manufactured anything yourself.
 
Just bought my 2nd S&W Sport, this one a Sport II. Both my wife and I have the CMMG .22 LR conversions and if you use quality ammo, they are accurate and good fun. We use them at "corporate" and Ladies Day" events and they are very popular.
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smokeater40 said:
Buy the M&P, do it now, do not wait, they are fantastic. Deals on ammo come up all the time, just watch for it. Buy the CMMG conversion kit and you can shoot .22 all day long. That's what I did , so you should do it too. :dancingbanana:
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-Doug- said:
So I really want to pick up one of those M&Ps for $699 but I can't justify spending the $0.40 to $0.50 a round. Knowing how much I'd end up using it I'd be broke in 4 months.

As a result of this I've been looking at the NEAs in 7.62x39 or even going the VZ58 route.
Anyone have experience shooting surplus ammo in either or?
Anyone have any arguments that will make me buy the M&P?

Almost bought the 15-22 the other day but it didn't have the same metal/substantial feel as the real deal M&P did.

Hope you are all enjoying your week
Doug
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I bought an NEA 7.62x39 AR with a 7.5" barrel. What a hoot to shoot that thing is. I have shot over 500 rounds of Chinese copper wash surplus and Czech surplus, both run fine. I get the odd fail to eject from the Chinese surplus but whatever, tilt it, shake it out and carry on.

The AR itself looks good, the finish on the bolt and barrel is not the usual finish seen on other ARs it looks more blued then parkerized. I do have a 5.56 AR but that is more for target shooting. The NEA is strictly for turning cash into noise. I think SFRC has a sale on NEA guns. And I have no connection to either (other then a customer) SFRC or NEA.
 
I buy chinese surplus round for plinking and reloading is also an option. Get the AR, you won't regret it. When you run out of ammo, just stare at it and you will smile anyway :)
 
223 has been around 460-470 range and I'd say it's never been this cheap in a long time. If 223 will make you go broke I guess the only other option you have is .22LR.
Or.
If it's the old lady that limits your ammo budget, get your wife some nice premium purse handbag or whatever then ask for a small gift in return. She got me a decked out dillon 650 after me getting her a purse that's worth 2 Daniel Defense. Not a bad trade considering she has all my cards :(
 
Weekend Gunslingers said:
I buy chinese surplus round for plinking and reloading is also an option. Get the AR, you won't regret it. When you run out of ammo, just stare at it and you will smile anyway :)
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That's what's im thinking.
The whole 7.62x39 AR seems appealing however ive read a lot about problems with them. Have only read good about the M&P
 
-Doug- said:
So I really want to pick up one of those M&Ps for $699 but I can't justify spending the $0.40 to $0.50 a round. Knowing how much I'd end up using it I'd be broke in 4 months.

As a result of this I've been looking at the NEAs in 7.62x39 or even going the VZ58 route.
Anyone have experience shooting surplus ammo in either or?
Anyone have any arguments that will make me buy the M&P?

Almost bought the 15-22 the other day but it didn't have the same metal/substantial feel as the real deal M&P did.

Hope you are all enjoying your week
Doug
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It would be wise to stay with non-restricted rifles . Restricted firearms are extremely regulated , and you will be forced to buy a range membership if you want to use it . You cannot hunt with a restricted , take it on the four wheeler , or even shoot it on your own property . In addition , with a restricted , the govt. knows you have it ; and you never know what new regulation or restriction that they will be placing on restricted rifles . With handguns , you have no choice as all handguns are restricted ; but there are a lot of very nice non-restricted rifles out there to choose from ; so why limit your shooting activities with a restricted rifle .
 
Midnight Rider said:
It would be wise to stay with non-restricted rifles . Restricted firearms are extremely regulated , and you will be forced to buy a range membership if you want to use it . You cannot hunt with a restricted , take it on the four wheeler , or even shoot it on your own property . In addition , with a restricted , the govt. knows you have it ; and you never know what new regulation or restriction that they will be placing on restricted rifles . With handguns , you have no choice as all handguns are restricted ; but there are a lot of very nice non-restricted rifles out there to choose from ; so why limit your shooting activities with a restricted rifle .
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Good non-restricted rifles cost significantly more than good ARs. If you only shoot at the range and don't hunt, it makes no practical difference.
 
-Doug- said:
So I really want to pick up one of those M&Ps for $699 but I can't justify spending the $0.40 to $0.50 a round. Knowing how much I'd end up using it I'd be broke in 4 months.

As a result of this I've been looking at the NEAs in 7.62x39 or even going the VZ58 route.
Anyone have experience shooting surplus ammo in either or?
Anyone have any arguments that will make me buy the M&P?

Almost bought the 15-22 the other day but it didn't have the same metal/substantial feel as the real deal M&P did.

Hope you are all enjoying your week
Doug
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Have you tried knitting---Dieseldog!
 
dieseldog said:
Have you tried knitting---Dieseldog!
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Haha not my thing but I may have to!
I have been doing alot of reading on 7.62x39 ARs and have been getting mixed reviews (bad and good) so I am not convinced on buying one to save in ammo costs. Would hate to invest 1000$ and then find out I should have just bought a .223 M&P to begin with.
 
-Doug- said:
Haha not my thing but I may have to!
I have been doing alot of reading on 7.62x39 ARs and have been getting mixed reviews (bad and good) so I am not convinced on buying one to save in ammo costs. Would hate to invest 1000$ and then find out I should have just bought a .223 M&P to begin with.
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The other option is to buy a X39 upper so you can use both. The advantage of x39, other than cost, is if you shoot CQB competitions, practicing with the x39 makes .223 feel like a .22! You may have to upgrade your firing pin or hammer spring as you may get light primer strikes on the x39 surplus round from the stock set up.
 
-Doug- said:
So I really want to pick up one of those M&Ps for $699 but I can't justify spending the $0.40 to $0.50 a round. Knowing how much I'd end up using it I'd be broke in 4 months.

As a result of this I've been looking at the NEAs in 7.62x39 or even going the VZ58 route.
Anyone have experience shooting surplus ammo in either or?
Anyone have any arguments that will make me buy the M&P?

Almost bought the 15-22 the other day but it didn't have the same metal/substantial feel as the real deal M&P did.

Hope you are all enjoying your week
Doug
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This might be the most shocking post I have read on CGN in a long time.

If you have a job, you can pretty much afford anything with some planning.

Like others have said, it also depends on how you intend to use the firearm.

If you are new to shooting & SHOOTING is priority #1, then VOLUME will bankrupt you. Get an SKS with cases of surplus...

If you are a recreational & occasional shooter, a 223 should not hit the wallet in the same manner.

Get your ducks in a row & put a plan in action...

Jay
 
Still alive said:
The other option is to buy a X39 upper so you can use both. The advantage of x39, other than cost, is if you shoot CQB competitions, practicing with the x39 makes .223 feel like a .22! You may have to upgrade your firing pin or hammer spring as you may get light primer strikes on the x39 surplus round from the stock set up.
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Interesting

I have a X39 AR and while I`ve never tried 223 I have just done a deal for a X95 so will be curious to see how they compare

I have a 9mm Kriss Vector and it feels like a big .22 with the recoil reduction system

Actually that may be an option for the OP - an AR/Kriss or similar in 9mm? 9mm can be bought pretty cheap

Food for thought........
 
it's worth it. The experience of shooting an AR is amazing. .223/5.56 has the excitement and is very controllable, so precise, quick shots are real. Give up boating, cancel this year's trip to Disneyland and buy that crate of ammo.
I'll bring other guns to the range with me, so i'll perhaps shoot 40-60 rounds and i'm satisfied. Bring a 22, shoot cheap. The .223 will be a nice contrast if you shoot it last
 
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